Religious: Taoist or Buddhist China?

[The Ubbergeek]

Another of those alt. religious conversions and official religions threads, but with a less possibly threadened path, paradoxally.

What would be needed, how and where an Emperor and administration (or maybe a vastly different path...) for that eitheir Taoism or Buddhism become official religion, instead of the OTL complex play between them, Confuscianism, Folk faith...

I know the hurdles roughly. Of one, the later was seen in the past by some (confuscean?) scholars as 'alien' and foreign, and that by one period, an anti-buddhist reaction of sort took over leading to OTl situation.
Of two, the former is a nebulous term, going from a Zen-like spiritual 'philosophy' kind of agnostical to a more classical religious setting, with a certain number of sects emerging at periods of history (like the branches of Buddhism), with synchretism between them all spiritual paths... And was seen if native, too 'esoteric' and potentially dangerous to the power at times...


So.... For Buddhism, a better end to Tang dynasty? No idea coming for Taoism, though...


And which forms? Would what is called 'Pureland' Buddhism the more apt to take over, for Buddhism?

 

[profxyz]

The decision to go with Confucianism is really not as gradual or inevitable as people tend to think. Confucianism was officially 'enshrined' as state doctrine during the reign of the Emperor Wu of Han during the 3rd Century BC, on the recommendations of the Confucian scholar Dong Zhongshu. The famous Chinese bureaucracy and examinations slowly codified and ossified this line of thinking.

Prior to that, Mohism (a mix of Christian-esque pacifist thinking + logic) was the major ideology in the Empire. Its followers were famously good at siege defence because of their ideology of non-aggression, and participated unsuccessfully during the Rebellion of the Seven States against Emperor Wu's predecessors. Have them win - or come dangerously close to winning that their voices could not be ignored - and you'll have Mohism as the major creed.

Even prior to that, Emperor Wen of Han administered the Empire according to Taoist principles (partly because his mom was a Taoist), adhering to a strict non-interventionist policy - which is a Taoist idea (since Taoists believe that the Dao, not Man, guides events). Have him spread his ideas further down the line, or really have the Han not produce a domineering personality like Emperor Wu, and you'd have Taoism as a major (though probably never official) policy.

Even prior to that in the Qin Dynasty, Legalism was the official state creed, where the state was expected to use the law in totalitarian ways in order to control 'inherently evil' human behavior. Indeed, some have argued that Legalism has never really been abandoned as China's official creed: the saying is "Outwardly Confucian, actually Legalist".

This is not to mention the fact that you could have had any of the religious rebellions in China succeed - starting with the famous Yellow Turbans and their Taoist ideology. Taoism and mysticism never disappeared from China and a strong enough religious leader to seize the throne through force would be strong enough to impose his religious view on China, using the immense power of the state.

So you can see from this that Confucianism attained its power really through the will of one person (Emperor Wu). Have an Emperor with a different political or even psychological view of the world, and you would have had a drastically different creed enshrined as China's state philosophy.

As for Buddhism... the Yuan/Mongol Dynasty basically had Tibetan Buddhism as the official state religion, with Lamas generally running large sections of the bureaucracy while the Emperors engaged in internecine feuds. Buddhism in the Northern and Southern Dynasties, as well as during the Tang, were also powerful enough that the state had to declare official campaigns to 'eradicate' them; though they were never going to get into power because of the entrenched opposition from the bureaucracy and the literati.

 

[Herzen's love-child]

And still, OTL, Buddhism is practiced by 20% of the PRC population and Taoism by anything from 20-400 million PRC citizens. Neither completely lost influence in Chinese culture, even if it wasn't a court religion in more recent centuries.

Confucianism is really a philosophical and ethical system. Not a religion. "State doctrine", as you put it is a good summation.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

And still, OTL, Buddhism is practiced by 20% of the PRC population and Taoism by anything from 20-400 million PRC citizens. Neither completely lost influence in Chinese culture, even if it wasn't a court religion in more recent centuries.

Confucianism is really a philosophical and ethical system. Not a religion. "State doctrine", as you put it is a good summation.

Yes indeed, albeit this thread is about one of them 'winning' the official favor and/or the people's hearts majority, official religion and all permanently so to speak.

I though also that the mongols adopted Tibetan Buddhism after the Yuans, a warlord of the Kalmuks or something like that?

 

[Herzen's love-child]

Yes indeed, albeit this thread is about one of them 'winning' the official favor and/or the people's hearts majority, official religion and all permanently so to speak.

I though also that the mongols adopted Tibetan Buddhism after the Yuans, a warlord of the Kalmuks or something like that?

The Mongols certainly adopted Buddhism wholesale in the years after Altan Khan invited the head of a particular Tibetan Buddhist lineage to Mongolia in the latter 16th C. It was this Khan who originated and gave that leader the title of Dalai Lama. The rest is history.

 

[profxyz]

Yes indeed, albeit this thread is about one of them 'winning' the official favor and/or the people's hearts majority, official religion and all permanently so to speak.

I though also that the mongols adopted Tibetan Buddhism after the Yuans, a warlord of the Kalmuks or something like that?

Yes they adopted Tibetan Buddhism officially after the Yuans, but the Yuan Emperors were very interested in Lama-ism (at the very least, in fits and starts with massive Buddhist influence punctuated by occasional bans and purges).

I also forgot to mention Emperor Wu of Liang, who was so devout that he 'resigned' from the Emperorship four times to become a monk, the court having to 'ransom' him back for c.100 million taels of gold each time. That aside, Emperor Wu also advanced Chinese Buddhism by synthesizing Confucian and Taoist philosophies into the Buddhist canon; so had he been less obsessed with becoming a monk he could well have imposed this form of Buddhism onto the Southern Dynasties (though I'm not sure how long this would have lasted, since reunification came from the Northern state of Sui.)

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Nice ideas!