Religious distribution in a non partitioned India?

Ok, why do you keep usuming Iran would want to fuck with India of all countries? Their border is a worthless dessert inhabitated by sunni balochs in both sides and neither Iran nor ttl India would care for them, so its not a tension zone. In otl Iran only influences the shia pakistani minority because they are persecuted so they can found an ear there, and yet Iran never founded a shia armed group in Pakistan. Post revolution Iran is not a chaotic evil entity desperate to mess with countries stronger then them for no geopolitical gain. Why would India want an alliance with Israel or in fact any direct participation in middle east politics? Chances are that with such a high % of muslims in the country the israel palestinian issue may become too controversial for the hindus to care about it so they would probably stay the fuck away from that mess, its not like this India would be desperate for allies. If India complains about mistreatment of indian workers in the gulf (and I guess those workers would never be mistreated in India, right?;)), then the gulf countries could just hire instead poor and desperate people from other countries or restrict guest workers to muslims.
I’m not trying to say post revolution Iran is a chaotic evil that always want to start conflict. Sometimes countries get dragged into long feuds or conflicts due to third party factors. I’m saying if Iran goes theocratic I can see them getting into conflict with US, USSR, or unstable Afghanistan and India gets dragged into it and Iran and India come into a conflict that is based around alliances and conflicts in interest but Iran and radicals slowly add in more religious and ethnic issues over the course of it. Let’s say the US comes into conflict with Iran over the gulf. India who is cordial to the US(after Cold War) and has financial interests in the gulf countries might get upset when they think Iran is expanding into their sphere of influence. Iran alliance with China could cause conflict between both of them. If India is Soviet leaning they could also become allies with Iraq. If they help Iraq in its war against Iran they are likely to hold a grudge. India in otl was friendly with the USSR. A bigger India might become even more friendly with them even if they aren’t socialist. Maybe they go more towards social democracy and play it up as a middle ground between socialism and capitalism. When Iran comes into conflict with Indian allies India becomes more and more hostile towards them and start acting against them in a variety of way. Maybe pro-Iranian groups start trying to stir up anti-Indian feelings in Kuwait or Qatar then you have a nativist riot against Indians in the country. The Indian people see or hear about this and public opinion turn against Iran. These people might not have better conditions in India but that isn’t important to Indians and their media when they see their people being jumped by mobs in Qatar or working to death. Media depictions will always have biases.

I’m assuming India is a rising power in this pod(much more so then now and at a faster rate) so expansion of influence overseas likely. The Middle East will probably be the region they expand their influence into first. Last example, let’s say a corrupt organization or person within the Indian government or military is secretly helping drug lords in Afghanistan for their own gains and goals separate from the government who many of don’t know what’s going on or kept out of the loop. When Iran who has a serious drug issue in the country somehow finds links between drug traffickers coming in from Afghanistan and people within the Indian military/government what do you think would happen even if that group acted separately?
 
I’m not trying to say post revolution Iran is a chaotic evil that always want to start conflict. Sometimes countries get dragged into long feuds or conflicts due to third party factors. I’m saying if Iran goes theocratic I can see them getting into conflict with US, USSR, or unstable Afghanistan and India gets dragged into it and Iran and India come into a conflict that is based around alliances and conflicts in interest but Iran and radicals slowly add in more religious and ethnic issues over the course of it. Let’s say the US comes into conflict with Iran over the gulf. India who is cordial to the US(after Cold War) and has financial interests in the gulf countries might get upset when they think Iran is expanding into their sphere of influence. Iran alliance with China could cause conflict between both of them. If India is Soviet leaning they could also become allies with Iraq. If they help Iraq in its war against Iran they are likely to hold a grudge. India in otl was friendly with the USSR. A bigger India might become even more friendly with them even if they aren’t socialist. Maybe they go more towards social democracy and play it up as a middle ground between socialism and capitalism. When Iran comes into conflict with Indian allies India becomes more and more hostile towards them and start acting against them in a variety of way. Maybe pro-Iranian groups start trying to stir up anti-Indian feelings in Kuwait or Qatar then you have a nativist riot against Indians in the country. The Indian people see or hear about this and public opinion turn against Iran. These people might not have better conditions in India but that isn’t important to Indians and their media when they see their people being jumped by mobs in Qatar or working to death. Media depictions will always have biases.

I’m assuming India is a rising power in this pod(much more so then now and at a faster rate) so expansion of influence overseas likely. The Middle East will probably be the region they expand their influence into first. Last example, let’s say a corrupt organization or person within the Indian government or military is secretly helping drug lords in Afghanistan for their own gains and goals separate from the government who many of don’t know what’s going on or kept out of the loop. When Iran who has a serious drug issue in the country somehow finds links between drug traffickers coming in from Afghanistan and people within the Indian military/government what do you think would happen even if that group acted separately?
Well, the only decades long Iran's policy towards a gulf country is their support of the shia majority of Bahrein against the sunni monarchy. I don't know about indian population in there but as far as I know there is no active Iran-supported armed group at the moment, and if protests of the oposition turn violent, by the side of the deaths it seems more like the work of the police.
Iran is gonna be anti soviet and anti USA for the whole '80s but they are gonna be bussy in the west with Saddam Hussain (how was India's relationship with him?) and after the '90s they are gonna slowly come closer to Russia and during that decade try to calm down things with USA, but that didn't work, in the meantime they surrounded by american military bases. As far as I know, India has no interest in Iran as long as they don't mess with them, in fact in otl India only cares about things west of Pakistan in function of Pakistan. If Iran has problems with Pakistan, then they friend with India. If Pakistan has problems with Israel, then they also should be friends with India.
Of course, if ttl India takes the role of China as the big new industrious center of the world they are gonna scramble like China for resources, specially oil. Iran being a big oil exporter and neighbour of India makes a it an strategic country in India's sphere of influence. In fact, it's problems with USA basically forces it to cling to whoever takes the role of China. Maybe in otl India has good relantions with USA but if india beats China in the industrial race then India becomes the main rival of USA. The US can't take as an allie someone strong enough to compete head to head with them, specially in industrial and military matters, so expect a lot of accusations of militarism and "stealing jobs and industries".
It seems that my rants about superpower united india was not what the OP asked, so this is my last post on the matter. I have no idea on the pop distribution of muslims in India, I just know that before the partition sikhs were disperced throught Punjab forming majorities in some cities like Lahore and some pockets.
 
Of course, if ttl India takes the role of China as the big new industrious center of the world they are gonna scramble like China for resources, specially oil. Iran being a big oil exporter and neighbour of India makes a it an strategic country in India's sphere of influence. In fact, it's problems with USA basically forces it to cling to whoever takes the role of China. Maybe in otl India has good relantions with USA but if india beats China in the industrial race then India becomes the main rival of USA. The US can't take as an allie someone strong enough to compete head to head with them, specially in industrial and military matters, so expect a lot of accusations of militarism and "stealing jobs and industries".
sorta like how the US and Japan had tension in the 80s over the export/import imbalance?
 
sorta like how the US and Japan had tension in the 80s over the export/import imbalance?
Didn't the author of Jurasic Park write a lot of novels in this period with the premise of "evil japanese bussinesmen try to take over the world from the rightful hands of Murica"?
 
Didn't the author of Jurasic Park write a lot of novels in this period with the premise of "evil japanese bussinesmen try to take over the world from the rightful hands of Murica"?
he wrote a novel called Rising Sun, that utilized the whole "https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JapanTakesOverTheWorld" trope.
Maybe ITTL he does a similar novel that is toned down due to the US being equally rivalled by India. Or the book is about India as opposed to Japan...
 
he wrote a novel called Rising Sun, that utilized the whole "https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JapanTakesOverTheWorld" trope.
Maybe ITTL he does a similar novel that is toned down due to the US being equally rivalled by India. Or the book is about India as opposed to Japan...
Imagine how many orientalist tropes he could fit in India compared to Japan? How badly could he use the problem of the cast system to deflect accusations of racism back to India?
 
Imagine how many orientalist tropes he could fit in India compared to Japan? How badly could he use the problem of the cast system to deflect accusations of racism back to India?
I think that we'd need to look at how people would justify the "India takes over the world" trope ITTL. And Indians being better than average when it comes to math would be at play here.
 

Srihari14

Banned
Finally an AH Scenario where I can contribute, This is how I think it would go -
  1. Jinnah Stays in UK instead of coming back to India, essentially meaning no Partition and a United Strong India
  2. India, due to not having the stress of Partition in its Richest States (Punjab and Bengal) would be much better off as it would not have some arbitrary borders drawn across it
  3. Muslim Population would be around 20%, as that was how much Muslims where during Partition. We cannot add the population to determine Muslim population as Pakistan has a pretty bad track record of Population control
  4. Punjab and Bengal would be Marginally Muslims at around 55%, but Hindus would play a very important role in politics
  5. India would inherit Britain's Position in the great game with USSR, as such it would have close relations with USA, but due to the presence of Communists, There is possibility India might still remain neutral, though tilted towards USA
  6. Afghanistan would be treated similar to Nepal, A mountainous region with great soldiers, as well as a tourist spot
  7. Iran might still have 1979 revolution
  8. Soviets will not Invade Afghanistan, as a well of India would be threatening enough to not do it
  9. In case the soviets invade, India will not support Islamists, as it would affect India as well
  10. Subcontinent will have less population and would be richer due to money not spent in wars
 
Finally an AH Scenario where I can contribute, This is how I think it would go -
  1. Jinnah Stays in UK instead of coming back to India, essentially meaning no Partition and a United Strong India
  2. India, due to not having the stress of Partition in its Richest States (Punjab and Bengal) would be much better off as it would not have some arbitrary borders drawn across it
  3. Muslim Population would be around 20%, as that was how much Muslims where during Partition. We cannot add the population to determine Muslim population as Pakistan has a pretty bad track record of Population control
  4. Punjab and Bengal would be Marginally Muslims at around 55%, but Hindus would play a very important role in politics
  5. India would inherit Britain's Position in the great game with USSR, as such it would have close relations with USA, but due to the presence of Communists, There is possibility India might still remain neutral, though tilted towards USA
  6. Afghanistan would be treated similar to Nepal, A mountainous region with great soldiers, as well as a tourist spot
  7. Iran might still have 1979 revolution
  8. Soviets will not Invade Afghanistan, as a well of India would be threatening enough to not do it
  9. In case the soviets invade, India will not support Islamists, as it would affect India as well
  10. Subcontinent will have less population and would be richer due to money not spent in wars
5. Why would India involve themselves in the great game? Early on they will probably be focused on keeping the nation together and would not try to really expand its influence to neighboring countries until the 60s or 70s. Even then the days of old school imperialism are over. India and the Soviets probably aren’t going to be reacting the great game between themselves. Borders are already well defined and Afghanistan will likely be a buffer state between them. I’m surprised more people don’t think India could go either way in the Cold War or be neutral. If Sino-Soviet split happens India could lean Soviet. Soviets and India could support each other in issues relating to China. The communist partisans in India are Maoist so the Soviets backing them is less likely. The more Soviet type of socialist and communist could be integrated into India political system as normal political parties. The Soviets could reinforce this by influencing these groups to do this instead of revolutionary or partisan like activities. Maoist communism would be treated with hostility while other forms of communism and socialism are acceptable. A Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in a situation like this depends on the state of Afghanistan and its relationship with India. India might also try to work with both sides especially when interest line up with each other and it benefits them. They would have some common ground with both powers.

6. Afghanistan and India could have a relationship that is a mix of US-Mexico, US-Latin America, and Kenya-Somalia. I doubt issues with Afghanistan will be solved or handled well. India might send troops in to stabilize the country every time unrest gets too bad or spreads across the border. Law enforcement and special forces could also be sent into the Afghanistan to deal with terrorist and drug lords. This can easily lead to resentment by locals if India is constantly seen as foreign invaders by some. Large amounts of immigrants or refugees from Afghanistan to India also might not be out of the question either. That could lead to anti-Afghan feelings in northern India especially if drug trafficking, human trafficking, and terrorism is mixed into it.

9. I agree that most of India would not support Islamist at least directly but groups within India or individuals within their government might. This could still be true even if they are friendly with the Soviets. Governments are not always unified in their interests or goals. The size of India and corruption being a likely issue might lead to a lot of stuff being done under the radar or behind the central government back. Look at the CIA or Irish Americans funding the IRA. The CIA have acted on their own with the president being left out of the loop on multiple occasions. Individual Americans use to fund the IRA openly even those the government did not support it and even tried to stop it at points. India could have a few government organizations or groups like this. They probably have some currently in otl but I’m not well verse enough on Indian politics to comment on that. Let’s say Saudi or other orthodox groups try to convert some Indian Muslims to their form of Islam. These Islamist groups grow and spread to a noticeable minority then fund other Islamist in the region. I think the existence of Saudi or a state like it that has oil money to throw around increases the threat of radicalization. Many former Muslim nationalist in India could be attracted to religious radicalization if they see nationalism as a failure. Furthermore, governments aren’t always fully aware or sure who they are giving funding and weapons to until the mistake is noticeable. ISIS use to rob banks someone funding them probably would not think they would switch to religious extremism if given money to become partisans. Weapon shipments can be easily redirected if corruption in the area is high. Partisans especially early in conflicts often work together and can be divided among a bunch of different types of groups so when a government gives weapons to one of them others are likely to get it. For example, the US could send weapons to nationalist who end up giving some of the weapons to Islamist who they might be working together with against a common enemy. India could have all these same issues.

10. I agree on the population part but wealth isn’t guaranteed. I personally think India would be generally more wealthy but it would still need to invest in its military. It’s military would be more focused towards fighting partisans, counter-terrorism, and intelligence. India will probably need a larger military early on to keep the country together. Nationalist will likely be a bigger issue early on for India. Also China is still a threat. I’m pretty sure India built nuclear weapons as a response to China having their own. Additionally, if India eventually becomes as powerful or more so then China it might expand its military and navy so they can involve themselves more so over seas. Rising powers almost always start involving themselves in other countries affairs more directly. I think India will be more wealthy due to its size alone and otl Pakistan having less people add to that.
 
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