Religious and administrative effects of a China unified by Chu?

Deleted member 97083

If the Chu state rather than Qin had united China, how would it change religion, philosophy, and statecraft in China? How would this then affect the world?
 
Daoism, everywhere. Meaning a more lassiez faire state. However, centralization will still occur (the Chu were after all the first to divide the nation into counties)
 
Culturally, there might not be much changes from OTL, as Han Dynasty's culture was heavily Chu-influenced.

There might be a different set of Chinese characters. Chu characters, like all other non-Qin script, deviated more radically from the original Zhou script than the Qin Xiaozhuan and Lishu fonts. Chu script was more streamlined and less traditionalist. A simpler script may lead to higher literacy rate down the timeline.

Chu's administrative system was more aristocratic, feudal and decentralized. Although they pioneered the prefectural system, a Chu prefecture was more of a military governorate than a bureaucratic subdivision in the Qin sense.
 
...and a different version of Chinese characters ("birds and worm")
Birds and worms was just a decorative script. The "business" Chu script was in fact similar to, and even simpler than the Qin script.

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i want to emphasise the book burnings that may have been avoided.

In short, the butterflies from a cultural/religious standpoint would be absurdly challenging to address, largely because we have no idea what would dominate ideologically.

So we already have huge butterfly's when it comes to the to religions people tend to be familiar with. Confucianism of course lost many texts, many presumably gone to history leaving later Confucian philosophers to address many areas not covered by Confucius. Mohism suffered in a similar way and as is often the pondering of many interested in Chinese alternate history, could have been a major philosophy/religion in its own right.

But then we get to schools which we know practically nothing about. Yangism is mentioned in enough Confucian texts and referenced by Mencius as a competitor to Confucianism, but has largely been wiped from history.
Yangism is quite remarkable because it is the closest thing we have to Objectivism in Chinese history, being a radical egoism with scathing criticism of government (but with a Daoist feel)***

A surviving Yangism would seriously challenge the other major schools, even if small. Whilst I doubt anything like it could have dominated China, it is always worth noting that an important point of religious development (sect vs sect or religion vs religion) is addressing its rivals.

Mahayana Buddhism does not exist without Nagarjuna addressing the epistemological claims of the Brahminical philosophers who attacked the Buddhist position of Sunyata. The Nicene council doesn't come to certain conclusions without addressing the Arians, or the Donatists. Bhakti doesn't come about without Hinduism challenging the well established arguments for monotheism from Islam. Neo-Confucianism doesn't form without addressing the afterlife claims of Mahayana Buddhism etc.


In a world where Yangism as a school still exists, the positions of Mohism, Confucianism and Daoism (never mind later Buddhism if it successfully gets to China in such a world) are going to have to address it for better or worse. Those religions will change as a result.


***
Wtf autocorrect?! It is not ok to correct Daoist to "Rapist". You are from China ffs.
 

Deleted member 97083

In a Chu scenario, what's the future of shamanist religion? What about the worship of Zhurong, who was considered the ancestor of the Chu?

Also, will the proto-Wu language be more assimilated into the Chinese sphere, or alternatively, will it have more influence due to being closer to the capital?

In a world where Yangism as a school still exists, the positions of Mohism, Confucianism and Daoism (never mind later Buddhism if it successfully gets to China in such a world) are going to have to address it for better or worse. Those religions will change as a result.
What pro- or anti-Yangist aspects do you think would be adopted by Mohism, Confucianism, and Daoism?
 
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What pro- or anti-Yangist aspects do you think would be adopted by Mohism, Confucianism, and Daoism?
It's hard to come up with easy answers to this due to the limited resources we have (and the fact t that it has been years since I read anything of Yang Zhu). Daoism is also harder to address in this regard due to the extreme diversity of Daoist beliefs and the fact that Daoism already is extremely influenced by Yangism (although I do think there is one interesting conflict here).

To tackle a few areas...

Hedonism: Although in a more epicurean fashion, Yangism did use hedonistic logic to justify some of its principles. OTL, Confucianism often contrasted itself against the perceived asceticism of Buddhism (Daoism having less clear a position on this). In a "Yangism survival" tl, Confucianism is going to have to either embrace that logic to claim it achieves it better for political reasons, or push even further towards anti-hedonistic values. Daoism once again is hard to predict due to the extremes between ascetic cults and religiously motivated sex rituals etc. Mohism is going to contrast here less in terms Hedonism (in the context of being interested in pleasure) as much as the best way to be that, Yangism being in favour of Wei Wo "everything for myself" whilst the Mohists believed ultimately in equal distribution of material wealth.

Politically: pretty straightforward. Confucianism is going to have to get more had line in defending the position of the emperor against a political ideology which is fundamentally opposed to it as it did OTL. Mohism likewise may have to become more focused on political structure if Yangism is going to become its sparring partner. Obviously as well, Mohism, Confucianism and Daoism are all going to have to come up with more defences against the ethical egoism of the Yangist philosophy.

Theology/Theism: whilst we can't fully know what Yangisms position on many of these affairs were, it does seem fundamentally to have been uninterested in an afterlife/heaven (which I think would become a big focus for Mohism, something to the effect of "you may be enjoying life now, but those who follow heaven are going to enjoy the afterlife" in a way reminiscent of other religions) and was actively opposed to immortality on hedonistic principles, which is a key issue it has against Daoism.


OTL, what we now recognise as Daoism borrowed heavily as a fusion of Mohism and Yangism anyway, the Zhuangzi being essentially a combination of parallels of the two with the emptiness doctrine from Lao Zi combining the two.

Funnily enough, I could actually see a "Mahayana equivalent forming out of Daoism in such a Tl, having all the philosophical pressure for something like it to form. If a surviving Mohism is going to develop a grand, universe pervading epistemology and sense of self whilst Yangism continues its radical egoism, eventually some Daoist thinker is going to have to develop an intuitive epistemology to address emptiness in a similar fashion.


Note all of this is guessing without trying to go to far (also apologies for rambling), but here at least are themes I think could develop in such a world.
 
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