Religious: alt paths for Russia

[The Ubbergeek]

A few twists and ideas for the 'alternative religion for Russia(s)' meme who is at times around...

Your challenges, if you wish to take it, is to end like...


A. A muslim but SHI'ITE Russia...

B. A Russia converted by Georgian church or perhaps Armenians OR even Nestorians missionaires.
(disclaimer; I don't know the subtilities of those christianisties much... are georgians or armenian churches orthodox, 'oriental'.. My apologies if I offend.)

C. Somehow a form of ZOROASTRISM. (ASB, I fear).


Note; this can be a local 'russia' state as an Ukraine - a part of a never united Russia, or an odd local culture like Russyns for Ukrainians, Hakka chineses...

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

We had a thread on what if Russia converted to Zoroastrianism, but couldn't get that anywhere. Here's my intake:

1) A Shia Muslim Russia will definitely need a dominant Shia government that takes hold of Persia a lot sooner, or a Shia Muslim Golden Horde for this to work. Alternatively, a Shia Circassia might also be in the cards.

2) If Kievan Rus' had a crappy relationship with the Byzantines, or if they took control of the Caucasus (ie: annexing all of Khazaria), they might have a shot, but for this to work, Armenia will have to survive. Alternatively, you can have an Armenian dynasty take root in Persia, and the Rus' establish their footholds in the Volga River. That will definitely require another power to entrench themselves in the Dnieper River region. (I'm thinking a Bulgar state built on the Dnieper River, or what if Kotrag's Bulgars made their Bulgar state on the Dnieper instead of on the Volga.) Armenian Apostolic Christianity, or even Armeno-Persian Nestorianism.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

We had a thread on what if Russia converted to Zoroastrianism, but couldn't get that anywhere. Here's my intake:

1) A Shia Muslim Russia will definitely need a dominant Shia government that takes hold of Persia a lot sooner, or a Shia Muslim Golden Horde for this to work. Alternatively, a Shia Circassia might also be in the cards.

2) If Kievan Rus' had a crappy relationship with the Byzantines, or if they took control of the Caucasus (ie: annexing all of Khazaria), they might have a shot, but for this to work, Armenia will have to survive. Alternatively, you can have an Armenian dynasty take root in Persia, and the Rus' establish their footholds in the Volga River. That will definitely require another power to entrench themselves in the Dnieper River region. (I'm thinking a Bulgar state built on the Dnieper River, or what if Kotrag's Bulgars made their Bulgar state on the Dnieper instead of on the Volga.) Armenian Apostolic Christianity, or even Armeno-Persian Nestorianism.

Sound ideas. Do we know where were the early 'cores' of Shi'ism?

Could it happens when the Sasssanides empire start to fall down from the arabs's armies? I means, local governors breaking off, or some state beyond take the opportunity...

 

[Simreeve]

Sound ideas. Do we know where were the early 'cores' of Shi'ism?

Southern Iraq.


What about the Khazars converting the Russ to [a form of] Judaism?

 

[Malta]

I already converted them to Tengriism.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

I'm not sure if the Rus' would love to embrace Judaism though, since it does forbid the consumption of pork. Plus they'll face the same knind of problems as if they converted to Islam.

 

[mowque]

Perhaps even more Jews in the Ukraine region? Could we convert the odd Cossack or such?

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Perhaps even more Jews in the Ukraine region? Could we convert the odd Cossack or such?

I vaguely heard about a Jewish cossack host, as well as a Tatar one maybe.


Tengrism is an interesting idea indeed, I like that thread back then...

Southern Irak? Maybe somehow, early Shias flee north in some new exodus-egyre due to increased political attacks.. they end up settling in southern russia maybe, azeris and others, perhaps...

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Haven't heard a whole lot of these:

D. Buddhist Russia

E. Lutheran Russia

F. Sikh Russia

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Lutheran Russia, you need the Rus' to be Catholic first, then become Protestant. Buddhist Russia, can we get a Buddhist Golden Horde as well?

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Lutheran Russia, you need the Rus' to be Catholic first, then become Protestant. Buddhist Russia, can we get a Buddhist Golden Horde as well?

there is the Kalmyks option, but way too late I fear.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

And it's not like Buddhism would have been popular with the Turkic tribes of Central Asia. That was though, before I realized that there is one Buddhist Turkic group, and that is the Altai.

 

[Just a Rube]

E. Lutheran Russia

While it's not too hard to make Russia Catholic, the POD would be early enough to almost certainly butterfly Martin Luther, and thus "Lutheranism." But I could easily see a Catholic Russia embracing an alt-Reformation for the same reasons the Scandinavians did.

F. Sikh Russia

ASB. Guru Nanak wasn't even born until 1469, and his first vision is traditionally dated to 1499. The religious structure of Russia is far too settled to abandon Christianity at this point.

 

[mrmandias]

Lutheran Russia, you need the Rus' to be Catholic first, then become Protestant. ?

Hmm. I think it's possible for Lutheranism to be accepted as a modern form of Orthodoxy, and for a modernizing Russia to adopt 'modern' forms of Orthodoxy, such that it could be considered Lutheran.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

And it's not like Buddhism would have been popular with the Turkic tribes of Central Asia. That was though, before I realized that there is one Buddhist Turkic group, and that is the Altai.

However, from the Ghandaran and Soghian periods, thought... Buddhism was strong in the Central Asia, at least until Islam came, that it is. Maybe it arrives to early slavic trives before Islam... wandered quite missionaires...

Hmm. I think it's possible for Lutheranism to be accepted as a modern form of Orthodoxy, and for a modernizing Russia to adopt 'modern' forms of Orthodoxy, such that it could be considered Lutheran.

Looking at the 'Old Believers' debacle, I doubt that would work..

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Back at my original threadstarter, is it possible to have georgian (armenians?) 'missionaires' beating the OTL to early Russia(s) and evangelize, convert like Kiev state?

(Are they the same Church, btw? Are they related churches, the Armenian and Georgian? )

 

[ArKhan]

Jewish Russia through Khazar influence?

 

[Baconheimer]

So what if you had a Varangian state carved out in the north of Russia, that later expanded, could it eventually convert to Catholicism, and later Lutheranism?

 

[ArKhan]

Or you could just have them stay Norse/Slavic pagans.

 

[RGB]

Or you could just have them stay Norse/Slavic pagans.

There are no textual or archeological finds that support any large amount of ethnic Norse religious presence in Russia. There's a decent amount of hammer pendants found in grave goods in Timirevo and Gnezdovo, but they peter out by the early 10th c.

It's likely that the Norse who stayed in Russia worshipped either very privately or switched to Slavic deities very quickly.

On the other hand Vladimir Svyatoslavich did attempt to unify/reform the Slavic paganism of his land by organising a set pantheon like at Uppsalla (or maybe at Arkona) from the major deities of the constituent Slavic tribes of Rus. He found it worked poorly and went with Christianity instead, I guess.