Reindeer/Caribou sled vs Dog sled?

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Not sure if this is pre-1900 per se (if nothing else a mod can move it) but I fail to see where else it could go and I'm thinking this question might be relevant to a pre-1900 TL I'm doing. It also might have a good discussion to come with it.

And yes, I did try google search but all it did was pull up vacation sites for Lappland in Finland and Svalbard.

I mean I think it's obvious that in somewhere like Antarctica where no plants grow and because you're on top of thousands of meters of built up ice dogs would be better but Caribou capable of surviving all the way up in Svalbard and Ellesmere Island don't have too limited of a range. So in General which is better or more efficient?

Ultimately I don't want to be too definite because I don't know for sure but I was thinking of a Scenario where a pre-renaissance society can use either (or both I guess) Reindeer Sleds and Dog sleds to conduct semi-regular trade (in low-bulk goods, mostly gold) between the mouth of the Mackenzie river and the shore of the Hudson Bay.

Would such a venture even be profitable? Though I was hoping the main discussion would be the pros and cons of dog sleds over reindeer sleds and vice versa.

 

[JackLumber]

Pro, in the event of an accident caribou make for much better eating

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Pro, in the event of an accident caribou make for much better eating

True though getting stuck in the middle of nowhere without something to pull the sled means you're probably dead anyways.

 

[JackLumber]

True though getting stuck in the middle of nowhere without something to pull the sled means you're probably dead anyways.

Better to die having had a half decent meal first.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Better to die having had a half decent meal first.

I guess.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

What advantages do Dog sleds have over Reindeer sleds?

 

[Anson]

Maybe the fact that reindeer can eat from the taiga while your sled dogs would be dependent on you to feed them meat and hard to procure food?

 

[Analytical Engine]

What advantages do Dog sleds have over Reindeer sleds?

Doggy cuddles, clearly.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Doggy cuddles, clearly.

True, but Inuits make them sleep outside of the tent .

Though to be fair they do need to be on the look out for polar bears.

Maybe the fact that reindeer can eat from the taiga while your sled dogs would be dependent on you to feed them meat and hard to procure food?

True but Time digging up the snow to eat on grass is time that's not spent moving. Meat is more energy efficient than plants are so more time moving.

This is why I'm very hard pressed on the matter to tell which is better. I'm leaning in favor of reindeer but if someone can come up with more information that points in favor of dogs then I'll change my views.

 

[JackLumber]

True, but Inuits make them sleep outside of the tent .

Though to be fair they do need to be on the look out for polar bears.



True but Time digging up the snow to eat on grass is time that's not spent moving. Meat is more energy efficient than plants are so more time moving.

This is why I'm very hard pressed on the matter to tell which is better. I'm leaning in favor of reindeer but if someone can come up with more information that points in favor of dogs then I'll change my views.

Dogs are the single most versatile domesticated animal on the planet and have an ingrained instinctual understanding of human nature second only to humans themselves.
So there's that.

 

[Richard V]

Dogs are much faster and they're fed once in the morning and once in the evening. So they're great for quick day trips.

Reindeer is better for long distance roaming since they can feed themselves. They are also far easier to handle.

 

[America Billiards]

Dogs are loyal and as Jacklumber has said, versatile.

Though reindeer are stronger, they're also heavier and require a lot more food. According to the San Diego Zoo, an average adult reindeer consumes 9-18 pounds of vegetation a day. In the case of the Mammoth Dog Sled Team, their dogs are fed 1-1.5 gallons of meaty soup each day of the winter season (work time for sled dogs). If you're traveling more than a day away from land, it seems like you'd want dogs because they require much less food to perform efficiently.

Dogs are quicker than reindeer and more maneuverable, but they can pull a lot less.

 

[Shevek23]

Hasn't anyone here read Lands of Ice and Mice? DValdron came up with some strongly pro-dog studies that showed, among other things, that dogs can pull more of a load relative to their body mass than horses, oxen or most any animal. Dogs benefit from a meat diet but it is possible to feed them with food containing a lot of vegetable matter.

None of this proves that dogs win over reindeer in every way, in every environment. But there are reasons they might in many situations.

Two others, off the top of my head:

1) Dogs are going to be easier to train to be useful in combat; train them to keep pulling until the enemy closes, then perhaps if one can design a quick-release harness, they can assist in the hand to hand fighting.

2) In a polar environment, trade vehicles should be able to switch between serving as a sleigh and as a boat; routes run over ice that turns to free water and vice versa, and it might happen by surprise too. Dogs are going to be easier to load aboard a boat body and keep inside it, I'd think.

 

[Shevek23]

...
Dogs are quicker than reindeer and more maneuverable, but they can pull a lot less.

I think your other points are correct. Certainly it is true that an individual dog can pull less than an individual reindeer/caribou, but that's because the latter is very much larger. Pound for pound, an equal weight of sled dog team can pull more than the same total weight caribou.

 

[America Billiards]

I think your other points are correct. Certainly it is true that an individual dog can pull less than an individual reindeer/caribou, but that's because the latter is very much larger. Pound for pound, an equal weight of sled dog team can pull more than the same total weight caribou.

Wow. I stand corrected.

 

[SenatorErnesto]

It looks as if sled dogs are better for the actual sled pulling bit of this discussion, but are these animals also helping in any other fashion in the TL? Reindeer I would assume, are better for creating a larger human society; more "advancing" them tech wise than sled dogs could.

But again I am not too sure if that is also a goal of the TL.

 

[wcv215]

While I don't claim to be an expert on...anything come to think of it, and sledding in particular, aren't dogs kinda infamous for having some of the best endurance among animals. As in outdone by us (maybe other way around) and that's about it, levels of endurance. It seems to my (inexperienced) eye that that would be an advantage.

 

[JackLumber]

While I don't claim to be an expert on...anything come to think of it, and sledding in particular, aren't dogs kinda infamous for having some of the best endurance among animals. As in outdone by us (maybe other way around) and that's about it, levels of endurance. It seems to my (inexperienced) eye that that would be an advantage.

Humans as a species have an absolutely crazy amount of endurance.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Dogs are the single most versatile domesticated animal on the planet and have an ingrained instinctual understanding of human nature second only to humans themselves.
So there's that.

True.

But the main purpose if pulling stuff. Not having a companion.

I mean if you want a companion you can just bring a dog with you while having reindeer pull the sled.

Though reindeer are stronger, they're also heavier and require a lot more food. According to the San Diego Zoo, an average adult reindeer consumes 9-18 pounds of vegetation a day. In the case of the Mammoth Dog Sled Team, their dogs are fed 1-1.5 gallons of meaty soup each day of the winter season (work time for sled dogs). If you're traveling more than a day away from land, it seems like you'd want dogs because they require much less food to perform efficiently.

Well I think it's a given if you're going to be travelling on Sea Ice and whatnot carnivorous dogs capable of eating Seal meat is best because you don't need to bring as much food(because meat packs more calories per weight) and can feed them on site.

Hasn't anyone here read Lands of Ice and Mice?

Yep, part of that is what inspired me to make this thread. As well as a solution for a medieval government with a Capital near Quebec city and a population largely settled around the St. Lawrence gulf to trade for gold Around the Mackenzie river delta and in between. Though this thread is to discuss not just that but for all of us to gather information on the subject where little exists not necessarily about my scenario.

None of this proves that dogs win over reindeer in every way, in every environment. But there are reasons they might in many situations.

I mean Dogs probably win in areas that are far too cold for vegetation or don't have any (i.e. Interior of Greenland, Antarctica, Sea Ice, ect) though Reindeer do naturally breed as far North as Baffin island and SVALBARD of all places so they can probably be used far more often and farther North than originally thought so long as you don't go on the ice.

2) In a polar environment, trade vehicles should be able to switch between serving as a sleigh and as a boat; routes run over ice that turns to free water and vice versa, and it might happen by surprise too. Dogs are going to be easier to load aboard a boat body and keep inside it, I'd think.

True. Heck some of the Arctic breeds of dogs have fur that allows them to tolerate cold water and being wet in the snow far better than other dog breeds. I don't know about Reindeer though, considering they live in SVALBARD I think they may be able to tolerate getting a little wet maybe.

Although when it gets warmer the Reindeer could probably also serve to pull wagons and the like (not as good as horses but if they're in an environment they're native to you probably wouldn't have to provide them feed)

It looks as if sled dogs are better for the actual sled pulling bit of this discussion

In theory? yes. In practice though Reindeer have many advantages that should be considered as well as disadvantages. Same goes for Dogs.

but are these animals also helping in any other fashion in the TL?

I mean given the main focus of the TL isn't centered in the Arctic (again the reason for this thread isn't necessarily just for the TL I had in mind it's for discussion of the topic which has little information on it, I was hoping we could compile some things that would not be considered).

While I don't claim to be an expert on...anything come to think of it, and sledding in particular, aren't dogs kinda infamous for having some of the best endurance among animals. As in outdone by us (maybe other way around) and that's about it, levels of endurance. It seems to my (inexperienced) eye that that would be an advantage.

How would endurance be a game-changing advantage? unless you plan to overwork the Animals I don't see why that would really be a problem. Maybe if you're on Sea Ice and you need to do a really quick run off of the piece of Ice you're on like a cheap hollywood movie but I don't think Reindeer would be good on Sea Ice.

Though there are many more useful areas for use of sleds, not just above the arctic circle.

 

[JackLumber]

True.

But the main purpose if pulling stuff. Not having a companion.

I mean if you want a companion you can just bring a dog with you while having reindeer pull the sled.

That's not what I was getting at, Dogs are easier to train and can perform a much larger amount of tasks, so why even take the caribou when the dog can do it's job and a mountain of other tasks as well?