Regnum Eire

NapoleonXIV

Banned
The intertwined histories of England and Ireland have been, as we all know, far from happy. Generally, the unhappiness has landed squarely on Irish shoulders

The challenge is to reverse it. Given any POD after the Roman era make Ireland the one who invades and chronically oppresses the benighted English race. Or perhaps the Irish would make enlightened rulers to put the rest of Europe to shame. In any case, make Ireland the dominant race and culture in the British Isles through Medieval and Modern times.
 

MerryPrankster

Irish pirates raided Britain for centuries, though the spread of Christianity on both sides of the Irish Sea and the driving of the Celtic peoples by the Saxons into the West calmed things down a bit.

Do you mean specifically Irish culture dominating Britain? A POD that keeps the Saxons out (or assimilates the Saxon warlords into the High King system) will leave the Celtic element culturally dominant.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
Do you mean specifically Irish culture dominating Britain?
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Yes, that was why I made the POD after the Romans. If it was before then, then we might have a culture that was located in Ireland but not much like ancient Irish as we understand it.
 

fhaessig

NapoleonXIV said:
Yes, that was why I made the POD after the Romans. If it was before then, then we might have a culture that was located in Ireland but not much like ancient Irish as we understand it.
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AT the very least, you're going to have to neutralise the Viking in Eire. Brian's Boru victory and subsequent life to undisputed heriditary high kingship of Ireland is a good beginning, provided butterflies erase William the bastard out of existance.
 

sunsurf

James White wrote a novel, The Silent Stars Go By where the POD is an Irish monk taking manuscripts from the Library of Alexandria before it was burned... the novel takes place in the present day, with an Irish empire dominating the world and launching space ships.
 

carlton_bach

sunsurf said:
James White wrote a novel, The Silent Stars Go By where the POD is an Irish monk taking manuscripts from the Library of Alexandria before it was burned... the novel takes place in the present day, with an Irish empire dominating the world and launching space ships.
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Argh. Please, not the 'Library of Alexandria' AGAIN!

AH authors using that expression ought to be fined!

(shudder...)
 

robertp6165

sunsurf said:
James White wrote a novel, The Silent Stars Go By where the POD is an Irish monk taking manuscripts from the Library of Alexandria before it was burned... the novel takes place in the present day, with an Irish empire dominating the world and launching space ships.
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The problem with that is that the Library of Alexandria was burned about 50 years before the birth of Christ. There were no Irish Monks at that time to take manuscripts from the library.
 

robertp6165

NapoleonXIV said:
The intertwined histories of England and Ireland have been, as we all know, far from happy. Generally, the unhappiness has landed squarely on Irish shoulders

The challenge is to reverse it. Given any POD after the Roman era make Ireland the one who invades and chronically oppresses the benighted English race. Or perhaps the Irish would make enlightened rulers to put the rest of Europe to shame. In any case, make Ireland the dominant race and culture in the British Isles through Medieval and Modern times.
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Well, you are going to have to have some major changes in the structure of Irish society and some major improvements in Irish military technology for anything like this to happen. So much so that this is almost ASB territory, and the resulting culture and society would not be what we consider "Celtic" at all.
 

fhaessig

robertp6165 said:
The problem with that is that the Library of Alexandria was burned about 50 years before the birth of Christ. There were no Irish Monks at that time to take manuscripts from the library.
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Actually no.

It took several burning to do this. The last and final one was done, IIRC, by Muslims. The worst one, the one which destroyed most of the books, was done by christians. In both cases, it was because it countained pagan books.
 

Alayta

Holy Patrick missionates Eire. The irish take the new belief easily, but insist on some regional specialities. ffPilgrimage is central in the irish version of Christianity. The fact, that a pilgrim is never to return to the island is of great importance. So many of the pilgrims, after their journey through the world stay in albion, which is rather similar to eire. Thus a irish minority is established. This leads to a denser population of southern albion. The pagan Saxons are fought against with high heart, as the irish way Christianity involves to have no fear of death, for god loves you, especially if you are a pilgrim.
So Albion stays celtic. The start of the viking raids sees an albion with some irish folk. They ignite a early cooperation between the irish and albion and Scottish people against the Vikings.
It is Finn MacCool, who finally pulls them of in the epic battle of Danghnaoise, a place that has not yet been locallised.
While in albion-Irish and albion population is growing, the irish population grows aswell. Totally the irish people start to outnumber the albion people. There is no enmity between the two. Not at all, due to their great warmanship and the holiness of their monks, the irish are esteemed very high among the albion people. So, after king arthurs last heir died, they offer the crown to the irish King Brian Meg Cennetic in 1010/1020.
The combisnation of haertful warmanship and the constant flow of knowledge, gained through the pilgrims, which are not allowed to return to eire, but may return to albion makes the islanders inconquerable.

What happened to the Saxons? Could they resist the franks with more folk? Have they been Christianized?
And the Normans? Where to put those warriors? Maybe a Crusade in 1066?


Sorry for the typos and general lack of english
 
Chrispi

Chrispi

The Mouseion tin Alexandrion was in severe decline after the Roman conquest anyway; the only scientists of note in Roman Alexandria were Ptolemy, Diophantus and Hypatia. A far cry from the glory days of Eratosthenes!
 

DominusNovus

fhaessig said:
Actually no.

It took several burning to do this. The last and final one was done, IIRC, by Muslims. The worst one, the one which destroyed most of the books, was done by christians. In both cases, it was because it countained pagan books.
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Sigh. Alright, here's how it went:

When Julius Caesar invaded Egypt, he set fire to Ptolemy's fleet, in the harbor of Alexandria. Said fire spread to the Museum of Alexandria (of which the Library was the main attraction) and burnt down most of the Library.

Flash forward to when the Christians are dominant in the Empire. A mob of Christians decided to sack the Temple of Serapis (sp?), which contained a large library.

The account of the Muslims burning the Library is almost certainly ficticious, Christian propaganda (as much as I, a devout Catholic, hate to say it).
 

fhaessig

DominusNovus said:
Sigh. Alright, here's how it went:

The account of the Muslims burning the Library is almost certainly ficticious, Christian propaganda (as much as I, a devout Catholic, hate to say it).
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I certainly remember reading about a muslim ruler in egypt who ordered a mass burning of all ancient books as 'if they agree with the Koran, they are not necessary and can be rid off. If they disagree with it, they are full of lies and must be burned' ( or words to that effects ). Whether or not you consider this burning the Library is something else, but it certainly destroyed a lot of books which had escaped the previous burning. I should try to find the exact references.

BTW, Christian in that era were much worse when it came to destroying ancient books ( vide Constantinople sack ), but they didn't hold alexandria.
 

DominusNovus

fhaessig said:
I certainly remember reading about a muslim ruler in egypt who ordered a mass burning of all ancient books as 'if they agree with the Koran, they are not necessary and can be rid off. If they disagree with it, they are full of lies and must be burned' ( or words to that effects ). Whether or not you consider this burning the Library is something else, but it certainly destroyed a lot of books which had escaped the previous burning. I should try to find the exact references.
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Thats the account I've heard, but, from what I've read, its false.
 

wkwillis

Irish quarantine established as policy during a black plague epidemic after 1200. The Irish wait a year after the plague and invade England in companionship with the Welsh, Kents, and Scots. The abandoned farms in England are occupied by the English refigees from the border areas, which are deliberately put back to forest to put the English knights at a disadvantage in the next war. This happens several times and results in a much smaller English speaking population, with the Welsh and Kents farther west, and the Scots farther south. The High King winds up running all of Britain after the last war and Irish becomes the court language and spreads.
The original impulse might come from an Irish colonisation of the Azores and Madeira. The timber near the water would build a fleet to enforce quarantine of Ireland and to bring over the invasion forces. At that time the Arabs still controlled part of Spain, so Ireland could make a lot of money selling warm weather crops, and salt from that littel lagoon on the island off Madeira. This would give some fisherman the land and wealth to make himself High King in the first place.
 

Alayta

A story about St. Brendan dicovering america and the irish populating it is too far fetched, isn´t it?
 
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