Reforms of Emperor Julian

[Alcsentre Calanice]

IIRC, Iulianus II had, in his short reign, three main goals:
- fight against corruption in imperial administration
- defend Paganism and ancient culture against Christianity
- conquer some parts of Persia

He also wanted, but this admittedly nothing more than propaganda, fight against "oriental" ("Byzantine") ceremonial at the imperial court and adopt a more Augustean way of governing the country (that is respecting the senate without giving up absolute monarchy).

Let's assume that he postpone his campaign in the east, or that he prepare better and achieve some victories, so he survives for at least 10 to 20 years. Which reforms are necessary to have the Roman Empire survive the next centuries without breaking into parts and shrinking slowly, as it did OTL? And which reforms are conceivable for an Emperor like Julian, with the knowledge of the 4th century?

 

[darthfanta]

So what kind of victories did he achieve in ITTL?

Removing tax farmers and replacing them with government paid tax collectors perhaps(there's still plenty of room for corruption,but probably less than having tax farmers do this).

Land reforms,especially in the west might be essential to prevent aristocrats hording land.

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

So what kind of victories did he achieve in ITTL?

As OTL, he vanquished the Germans at Argentorate, and ITTL, he maybe occupied Armenia - nothing more, it would only overstretch the Empire.

But I'm looking for military reforms protecting Rome in the future.

Removing tax farmers and replacing them with government paid tax collectors perhaps(there's still plenty of room for corruption,but probably less than having tax farmers do this).

That's very conceivable, especially because it reinforces the power of the central state. But I thought that the late Roman Empire already at a very large financial administration.

Land reforms,especially in the west might be essential to prevent aristocrats hording land.

Land reform? Is this possible with such an Emperor? And what kind of land reform would it be? I would give it to little peasants who have to fight in the army in exchange, like farmers did in republican times.

 

[darthfanta]

As OTL, he vanquished the Germans at Argentorate, and ITTL, he maybe occupied Armenia - nothing more, it would only overstretch the Empire.

But I'm looking for military reforms protecting Rome in the future.



That's very conceivable, especially because it reinforces the power of the central state. But I thought that the late Roman Empire already at a very large financial administration.



Land reform? Is this possible with such an Emperor? And what kind of land reform would it be? I would give it to little peasants who have to fight in the army in exchange, like farmers did in republican times.

Take land from the aristocrats.The aristocrats will probably revolt over this,but if successful,it might be good for the economy and to Roman society as a whole.

Weakening the office of Comes et Magister Utriusque Militiae might be a double edged sword.On one hand,you weaken a potential rival,the other problem you have is that in the event of weak emperors,you don't have a fall back line to provide strong leadership.

I think rotating units between being limitanei and comitatenses might be a good idea.Neglecting units the goes out and fight the most and giving all these privileges to units that don't potentially fight isn't a good idea.The limitanei's pay,training and equipment was poor because of the neglect and the comitatenses,who dwell in the cities,became fairly complacent in discipline and because most of the time they were billeted in civilian homes,they became little more than state owned thugs.

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

Take land from the aristocrats.The aristocrats will probably revolt over this,but if successful,it might be good for the economy and to Roman society as a whole.

And give the land to whom? Peasant soldiers? Militia?

Weakening the office of Comes et Magister Utriusque Militiae might be a double edged sword.On one hand,you weaken a potential rival,the other problem you have is that in the event of weak emperors,you don't have a fall back line to provide strong leadership.

I think it is a bad decision to introduce a central command of the army. The Emperor should be the Generalissimo of the exercitus, but one supreme commander under him could be too ambitious and try to overthrow the government.

I think rotating units between being limitanei and comitatenses might be a good idea.Neglecting units the goes out and fight the most and giving all these privileges to units that don't potentially fight isn't a good idea.The limitanei's pay,training and equipment was poor because of the neglect and the comitatenses,who dwell in the cities,became fairly complacent in discipline and because most of the time they were billeted in civilian homes,they became little more than state owned thugs.

I argue for replacing the limitanei by peasant soldiers/militia, somewho like the Byzantine theme system. Central army or comitatenses should be full time soldiers, stay in central cities and enjoy privileges.

 

[darthfanta]

I argue for replacing the limitanei by peasant soldiers/militia, somewho like the Byzantine theme system. Central army or comitatenses should be full time soldiers, stay in central cities and enjoy privileges.

And the effectiveness of the Roman army declined as a result.Like I've mentioned,these guys were pretty much bully boys.The soldiers were reluctant to fight came because life was good.Discipline was slack because they can take whatever they want from the civilians.The civilians came to see the army as a gang of thugs and this sort of decreased recruitment as soldiers were no longer seen as protectors,but little better than the barbarians.They also aren't as experienced as the limitanei because they are stationed so back from the front.This also stop the limitanei from becoming as bitter as they were in OTL.

I suggest rotation of individual units between the front and the interior as the best option,possibly between different fronts as well.This way,troops will be more experienced,no more bullying civilians,more importantly,they wouldn't be under an overall commander for a long time.They also wouldn't be entrenched in certain areas and mutiny when ordered to go to another front(which was how Julian came to power,so he should be aware of this problem). It would be disastrous if a front collapsed and the troops in another front refused to march to that front.A theme system should also be introduced,but regular army units should by no means stay in the cities.

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

I suggest rotation of units between the front and the interior as the best option.A theme system should also be introduced,

How can a theme system be named in Latin?

but regular army units should by no means stay in the cities.

They can stay in the old castra of the legions on the borders.

 

[darthfanta]

I've edited something in my earlier post.

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

I've edited something in my earlier post.

Important point. Also, I like the idea of Julian thinking of his way to power and thus changing some points to avoid that others follow this way.

 

[darthfanta]

Another thing is that the man should get re-married ASAP.It's destabilizing to change the ruling dynasty all the time. Would be fun if he managed to meet a certain female scholar in Alexandria....

 

[Walkin' Man]

If I'm not wrong, the paying officers of the armies were under the command of the general, which made them overly influent. Make it a position selected by the civilian administration or given by imperial appointment, so that rebelling armies would lose their soldus.

Also, promote a redistribution of slave labor connected with the land reform: give knowledgeable farming slaves to the new small owners, so that they won't end up losing everything and become plebs like it happened 'till then.

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

If I'm not wrong, the paying officers of the armies were under the command of the general, which made them overly influent. Make it a position selected by the civilian administration or given by imperial appointment, so that rebelling armies would lose their soldus.

Good idea.

Also, promote a redistribution of slave labor connected with the land reform: give knowledgeable farming slaves to the new small owners, so that they won't end up losing everything and become plebs like it happened 'till then.

Slave labour wasn't that important in the 4th century. Much more land owners had coloni, some sorts of ancient serfs. This serfdom is a problem since it restricts free circulation of work and goods. I think you have to liberate these serfs by engaging them as peasant soldiers.

But these new peasant soldiers will surely get some slaves, previously owned by expropriated senators.

 

[Agricola]

Removing tax farmers and replacing them with government paid tax collectors perhaps(there's still plenty of room for corruption,but probably less than having tax farmers do this).

Roman tax farmers were not longer responsible for the direct taxes since the early principate, almost everywhere. And the tax farming of indirect taxes was greatly reduced, when Diocletian abondenend lot of indirect taxes after introduction of the annonae based on capitatio et iugatio.

The late roman empire had serious issues with taxes and corruption. But publicani played no role anymore.

 

[darthfanta]

Roman tax farmers were not longer responsible for the direct taxes since the early principate, almost everywhere. And the tax farming of indirect taxes was greatly reduced, when Diocletian abondenend lot of indirect taxes after introduction of the annonae based on capitatio iugatio.

The late roman empire had a serious issue with taxes and corruption. But publicani played no major role anymore.

My bad then.

 

[Agricola]

Slave labour wasn't that important in the 4th century. Much more land owners had coloni, some sorts of ancient serfs. This serfdom is a problem since it restricts free circulation of work and goods.

Exactly! Classic slaves played just a minor role in the late empires economy. But, before you free the colones, you should ask yourself, why the roman emperors reduced the rights of the poor tenants initially. Any change in this department is highly complex and tricky and not easy to implement, without massive and possibly very detrimental consequences.

 

[Magnum]

They also wouldn't be entrenched in certain areas and mutiny when ordered to go to another front(which was how Julian came to power,so he should be aware of this problem). It would be disastrous if a front collapsed and the troops in another front refused to march to that front.

Curiously, those same troops didn't seem to have any problem with marching all the way to Ctesiphon once Julian was in charge

Which reforms are necessary to have the Roman Empire survive the next centuries without breaking into parts and shrinking slowly, as it did OTL?

They could IMO get by even with zero reforms if they're lucky and manage to handle the Goths and the Germans better and prevent these from penetrating the frontier in the first place.

That said, one solution could be a split like this:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=10889066&postcount=12

Another one would be periodically conducting expeditions into Germania to keep the tribes weak and put down powerful chiefs. That and not losing to Gothic and Persian invasions.

Ideal ASB-ish measures: reform the currency, promote proto-nationalism among the army, reverse the slide towards autocracy, end tax exemptions for wealthy landholders, have local assemblies (still existing in the cities at this point) appoint individuals towards a second 'senate-like' chamber, which acts in an advisory role at first, but over time develops more and more like a medieval parliament

And which reforms are conceivable for an Emperor like Julian, with the knowledge of the 4th century?

- Increase role of local assemblies in managing local affairs.
- Defeat and then settle the Goths, similarly to the Franks.
- Create an organized pagan 'church', probably connected to the imperial cult in some way, with the purpose of having it provide welfare services in competition with the Christian Church
- Cut of all access to public funding for the Christian Church; fund temples, including rebuilding the Jewish Temple; favor "heretical" Christian bishops
- generally impose religious tolerance by force of law
- promote efficiency and reduce corruption in public administration (e.g. reduce redundant positions at the imperial court, prosecute corrupt officials, prevent imperial postal service from being abused by private individuals for personal gain etc)
- re-arrange administrative divisions to ensure centers of pagan majority [e.g. Majuma (Christian majority) made back into a part of Gaza (pagan majority)]


Looked up an old post of mine regarding the most successful Julian could ever get:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=335097

Regarding the most succesfull Julian can get:

Family life
- he changes his mind about marriage after falling in love with a handsome and smart woman from a pretigious and powerful family
- sires a single boy with her, which will be his heir, along with multiple daughters which he gets to marry off in order to solidify his position
- said boy is tall, strong, healthy and smart. He is educated well in philosophy, war and administration. He is made co-emperor after reaching maturity and is seen by all as a strong heir who will succeed his father without any problems. When it comes to leading and inspiring armies, juggling the demands and paperwork of administration, negotiating with powerfull individuals or giving rousing public speeches, the boy is a natural

War against Persia
- the expedition against Persia goes much better than expected, in that all the minor delays which could have been avoided are indeed avoided. Thus, after achieving victory outside Ctesiphon, Julian and his commanders feel confident about assaulting the city and then returning along the route they came, safely returning without confronting Shapur's army and bringing back all of their loot from sacking his capital and the other wealthy cities they took over in Mesopotamia
- a new expedition is launched in 364, this time into Armenia. Shapur's army is again out of position, this time having concentrated in the south. Julian returns back after a bunch of minor battles and sieges without any sort of decisive engagement having taken place, again carrying significant loot
- in 365, Julian again campaigns in the south, but Shapur is waiting for him from the start, and is unwilling to once again see his lands pillaged. The opening engagement sees Julians trade-mark pincer attacks defeat Shapur's flanks. This is then followed up by Shapur constantly harrassing Julian form afar. Suffering from a minor injury incurred as part of his reckless, leading-from-the-front style of command, Julian retreats back home. He is lucky, since Shapur felt compelled to confront him so close to the border, making the retreat much easier for the Roman force
- by January 366, news of the Allemani crossing the frozen Rhine has reached Julian, who concludes a peace treaty with Shapur: Arsaces II of Armenia is confirmed as a vassal of Rome, various border towns and forts in upper Mesopotamia, taken 3 years prior, remain Roman and no side pays any tribute to the other

War against the Barbaians
- Julians Gallic legions, who had been growing restless over the past two and a half years, are happy to finally return home, though not so happy to once again face the Allemani. They spend the following two years once again chasing the Allemani tribes out of Gaul and then launching punitive exeditions against them
- during some of the last punitive expeditions into southern Germany, Britain is attacked on all sides in what gets termed "The Great Conspiracy". Julian is forced to conclude peace with the Allemani and sends a force north, into Britain (which he also briefly leads until Londinium is re-taken). It will be two years until order is fully restored there
- tension also grows along the Danube, where Quadi and Gothic tribes clash with the local Roman garrisons. Julian is forced to campaign in the area for the next two years
- no sooner has Julian achieved some semblance of order along the Danube that Saxons tribes begin raiding northern Gaul. He hurries west, defeats the Saxons in battle and forces them to provide him with troops. Much to his dismay, he is again forced to return to the middle Danube for the rest of 372 to once again deal with the Quadi and others.

Diplomatic offensives
- frustrated at not having enough time to focus on his domestic agenda, Julian concludes peace with the tribes along the Danube in 373. He then travels to Rome, where he mediates a dispute that was brewing in North Africa between the local governor and the Moorish tribes.
- after 3 days of meeting with the Senate, Julian is once again forced to sail east, where the Persian King is preparing to invade Armenia. Mustering his forces in Antioch (a city for which he had no love whatsoever), Julians' emissaries reach an agreement with the Sassanids and war is averted

Administering the Empire
- for the next 3 years, Julians Empire is at peace and stable, allowing him to focus more on domestic concerns, with mixed result - despite his best efforts to administratively harrass it, Christianity continues to grow and thrive, though it is far less united then before. The army and an increasing proportion of central and regional administration though sees more and more pagans being appointed to positions of power
- Julians project for a pagan charity organisation finally takes off around this time, with full backing from state coffers
- With Julian micro-managing numerous disputes and problems, the administration continues its path towards increasing efficiency, although the improved collection rate of taxes doesn't seem to cheer up anyone

Gothic War
- by 376, the Goths have settled south of the Danube, driven by the advancing Huns. With famine, disease and Roman oppression, war erupted. Julian however decided against taking to the field in Thrace, instead opting to order local forces to adopt a defensive stance whilst he moved his armies east, where an Arab revolt, led by queen Mavia, had taken place in conjunction with a Persian invasion
- in 377 Julian concludes peace with Persia, agreeing to pay a 10-year tribute, whilst the Arabs are placated by being offered increased privileges
- heading a mixed Roman-Arabic force, Julian arrives in Thrace in early 378 and rendezvous with reinforcements advancing from the west; over the next five years, he will campaign against the Goths and their coalition, more or less destroying Thrace in the process. In the end, he will earn the cognomen Gothicus as a result of his victory. The remaining Goths stil left alive are either sent east or sold as slaves in small groups throughout the Empire

Succession
By now, Julian's son had been more or less in charge of state affairs for some years, occasionaly campaigning alongside his father, other times taking to the field by himself, where he enjoyed his fair share of military victories in what were no more than minor engagements. During the last year of his life, Julian had been racked by illness, which, while it did occasionaly subside, allowing him to appear in public from time to time, ultimately took its toll on him. This process thrust his son more and more into a leadership role, until he eventually assumed full power in 384, when Julian finally drew his last breath, aged 53.

LSCatilina convincingly argued in that thread that the Goths would be settled in Thrace instead of being sold as slaves.

Lastly, a very fun thread on the subject of Julian a while back, including a very nice back-and-forth between me and Basileus Giorgios on the usefulness of local assemblies:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=277371

 

[SlyDessertFox]

As OTL, he vanquished the Germans at Argentorate, and ITTL, he maybe occupied Armenia - nothing more, it would only overstretch the Empire.

But I'm looking for military reforms protecting Rome in the future.

What he's likely to accomplish in the east if he is successful is place his own candidate for the Sassanian throne in power in Ctesiphon (I forgot the guy's name, but he was in Julian's entourage and was basically his casus belli for invading). I don't see him conquering Armenia, it seems peripheral to his goal and unneccessary since he can just ensure Armenia is loyal to him as a nice buffer.

As for what reforms Julian is likely to carry out? Tone it down on the dominate-he was already doing this-moving a little bit more back to the principate idea of the emperor not being a god amongst men, but one of the soldiers, etc. etc. He's likely to continue with his incredibly long term solutions to weakening Christianity, and, probably more importantly, he'll actually start trying to promote some sort of Pagan (and possibly) henotheistic religion to supplant it. His views of Paganism was not influenced by actual classical paganism, so much as it was influenced by the Christian interretation of it-i.e. that Paganism was some sort of unified belief system. So once he starts to realize that, the natural progression would be to promote some sort of henotheistic religion IMO.

As for civil reform, I think we can get an idea on what he would like to do from his time in Gaul. Julian clashed with Florentius on a lot of things, but one of them was taxes. Basically, as I understand it (it's been awhile, I just actually ordered a book on Julian but this part is coming from The History of Rome podcast), Florentius just wanted to raise taxes. Julian wanted to reduce taxes and weed out corruption and improve collection practices. IIRC, Julian's method actually led to increased revenue.

So we can extrapolate from this that Julian knows what he's doing and has the right idea. Now, he'll face a lot of resistance on this, but improving tax collection while reducing tax rates, will be basically a win win for the empire if he can get it through.

 

[Agricola]

They can stay in the old castra of the legions on the borders.

Soldiers in the cities was never a good idea! But it was part of the existing military strategy and the tax system of the late empire. If you move the late empires regional field armies closer to the border, like during Augustus' reign, you have to split them and threfore you must change the military strategy fundamentally. Looking to the fully different situation beyond these borders, I am not sure, if the romans of the late empire are able at all, to return to the strategy of the early principate.

PS: the limitanei were much better than their reputation amongst historians of the 19th century. Actually, it is an urban myth, that they have been soldier peasants.

 

[darthfanta]

Curiously, those same troops didn't seem to have any problem with marching all the way to Ctesiphon once Julian was in charge :rolleyes

Personal charisma(he was quite a successful general) and the fact that offensive campaigns are highly profitable for the soldiers.

Soldiers in the cities was never a good idea! But it was part of the existing military strategy and the tax system of the late empire. If you move the late empires regional field armies closer to the border, like during Augustus' reign, you have to split them and threfore you must change the military strategy fundamentally. Looking to the fully different situation beyond these borders, I am not sure, if the romans of the late empire are able at all, to return to the strategy of the early principate.

PS: the limitanei were much better than their reputation amongst historians of the 19th century. Actually, it is an urban myth, that they have been soldier peasants.

I don't advocate a return to the strategy of the principate,but it would be great if troops are still kept in the interior,in fortress barracks in the countryside,as well as in fortresses along the border,but with units being rotated between the two areas,preferably even between different fronts.This is to weaken the loyalty of the units to a particular general and to give them some experience.Sources also indicated that soldiers from some of the border units were basically worn out and sick of fighting while the comitatenses were drowning in luxury.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Soldiers in the cities was never a good idea! But it was part of the existing military strategy and the tax system of the late empire. If you move the late empires regional field armies closer to the border, like during Augustus' reign, you have to split them and threfore you must change the military strategy fundamentally. Looking to the fully different situation beyond these borders, I am not sure, if the romans of the late empire are able at all, to return to the strategy of the early principate.

PS: the limitanei were much better than their reputation amongst historians of the 19th century. Actually, it is an urban myth, that they have been soldier peasants.

Agreed especially with the last point. It should be pointed out that the Late ROman Army was probably better pound for pound than their 1st-2nd century counterparts. The problem was the army (Particularly in the west) lacked enough manpower to make risking battle regularly realistic by the 5th century (partially as a result of the west losing 2 disastrous civil wars to Theodosius).