Reformed Roman Empires?

Would it have been possible for the Roman Empire to be reformed (in any way) after 476 by anyone other than... well, the 'Byzantine' Roman Empire (unless the Plague of Justinian as well as a defeat at Manzikert still happen)?

By reform the Roman Empire, I mean that the capital is at Rome and the state has at least... 3/4 of the Roman Empire. And the state-language should either be a Latin language (or more than one Latin language if there is more than one language-of-administration) or be actual Latin. However I suppose Greek, Arabic, or Turkish would work...but the capital still has to be at Rome, the nation must call itself the Roman Empire, and the 'Byzantine' Roman Empire, if it unites it, must go through the Plague of Justinian and Manzikert like OTL.



So... how could this happen?

Could one (or two, if one inherits another) of the big Latin powers like France or Spain essentially recreate the Roman Empire? Perhaps the Habsburgs are even luckier, and become Spain-dominated? Or a united France-England conquers the rest of Western Europe over the centuries and colonizes the rest of the Mediterranean in the 18th and 19th centuries?

Could the Crusaders be extremely successful and create one united Crusader kingdom, which is later integrated into the Papal States (or any powerful state with Rome as its capital)?

Could the Arabs or Turks have made a Muslim (or secular/tolerant) Roman Caliphate?

Could the Pope go insane during the Reformation and demand the union of Catholic states against heresy, which at first is a very loose union, but later integrates more and more

Frankish Roman Empire, after conquering even more in Europe, surviving, and then ruling the Crusader states?

Eastern Roman Empire somehow manages to recover epically after Manzikert?

The Mongols are more successful in Europe, and the ensuing larger more western Golden Horde manages to recreate the Roman Empire and move the capital to Rome? Or, in the same scenario, the Pope gets Europe to unite against the invaders?

19th century Latin-derived-language nationalism?

Osmanli superwank?

Any ideas, or comments on these ideas?
 
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There was a proposal for Empress Irene (or maybe Zoe im not sure) to mary charlemenge. This would unify the bulk of what was the roman empire with the addition of germany
 
Could one (or two, if one inherits another) of the big Latin powers like France or Spain essentially recreate the Roman Empire? Perhaps the Habsburgs are even luckier, and become Spain-dominated? Or a united France-England conquers the rest of Western Europe over the centuries and colonizes the rest of the Mediterranean in the 18th and 19th centuries?

Could the Crusaders be extremely successful and create one united Crusader kingdom, which is later integrated into the Papal States (or any powerful state with Rome as its capital)?

Could the Arabs or Turks have made a Muslim (or secular/tolerant) Roman Caliphate?

Could the Pope go insane during the Reformation and demand the union of Catholic states against heresy, which at first is a very loose union, but later integrates more and more

Frankish Roman Empire, after conquering even more in Europe, surviving, and then ruling the Crusader states?

Eastern Roman Empire somehow manages to recover epically after Manzikert?

The Mongols are more successful in Europe, and the ensuing larger more western Golden Horde manages to recreate the Roman Empire and move the capital to Rome? Or, in the same scenario, the Pope gets Europe to unite against the invaders?

19th century Latin-derived-language nationalism?

Osmanli superwank?

Any ideas, or comments on these ideas?

You have a very interesting ideas...
Anyway, you forget the Carolingians...which have the best chance to reviving the Roman Empire, I think...
Maybe the POD would be Charlemagne reforming Frankish laws and customs, so that there won't be "empire get divided amongst the heirs" thing anymore...?
And then, either the Byzantines finally realize that the Carolingian Franks aren't "barbarians" and make a Personal Union with them (not necessarily Charlemagne-Irene marriage, but maybe some future emperor/empress), or there could be a war between them and resulting into an annexation of the one by the other...? (I preferring the Personal Union idea, though)
 
I don't think it's really possible. The Roman Empire was a creature of its time, born out of the conditions prevalent in the post-Alexander Mediterranean. These conditions simply don't exist elsewhere in history.
 
I don't think it's really possible. The Roman Empire was a creature of its time, born out of the conditions prevalent in the post-Alexander Mediterranean. These conditions simply don't exist elsewhere in history.
Says writer of a Eastern-Rome-wank :p.

Anyway, I agree with that point--but rulers ever since the fall of the Roman Empire have been infatuated with recreating it. Wank any Mediterranean nation, if it manages to take Rome (or if it already had Rome), it will eventually claim to be another Rome. Make this wank plausible--whallah, usted tiene un Imperio Romano nuevo.
 
Says writer of a Eastern-Rome-wank :p.

Anyway, I agree with that point--but rulers ever since the fall of the Roman Empire have been infatuated with recreating it. Wank any Mediterranean nation, if it manages to take Rome (or if it already had Rome), it will eventually claim to be another Rome. Make this wank plausible--whallah, usted tiene un Imperio Romano nuevo.

SPOILER ALERT!

My semi-original suggestion is to have the Domain of Sygarius beat back and maybe if it's possible, conquer outright the Salian Franks or vassalize them as in Jaydoh's Remnants of Rome ripoff (I kid :p) and wank the hell out of it.
 
Is a Visigothic-Ostrogothic union possible? They could possibly invade Vandalia, and eventually maybe push the Franks back. don't know the likelihood of that, though.

A more successful Moussolini?
 
It was possible under Theodoric the Great. He was basically the de facto ruler of the Visigoths and king of the Ostrogoths and by marriage alliance, was linked to the Vandals and Burgundians.
 
It was possible under Theodoric the Great. He was basically the de facto ruler of the Visigoths and king of the Ostrogoths and by marriage alliance, was linked to the Vandals and Burgundians.

True. A posit explored in Lest Darkness Fall.

I think the best bet is a Carolingian Empire that is somehow less Carolingian and more Roman. As someone else posted, "reformed Franks" and all that.

As for Syagrius, that is a possibility, but I don't think he really had the numbers or support to do much but "wait for the end" as a successor to his father. The Franks thought him harmless enough to let live after taking his territories. Although he was eventually snuffed.

Maybe instead he goes to work for them? Teaches them to be more Roman? Whispering in the king's ear and all that...

Like Byzantium, any resurrected Rome is going to be a bastardization of the old Rome. How it could have its capital AT Rome, I do not see. The only reason for that would be religious.
 
Anyway, I agree with that point--but rulers ever since the fall of the Roman Empire have been infatuated with recreating it. Wank any Mediterranean nation, if it manages to take Rome (or if it already had Rome), it will eventually claim to be another Rome. Make this wank plausible--whallah, usted tiene un Imperio Romano nuevo.

Could a succesful Napoleonic France do it, perhaps?
 
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