Why didn't the Hungarian Germans get to wear the SS Runes? Surely they would be considered "Aryan..." Oh, wait. This is Himmler we're talking about. Nevermind.
References: Prototypes, transitional and ephemeral uniforms
- Thread starter Marc Pasquin
- Start date
Why didn't the Hungarian Germans get to wear the SS Runes? Surely they would be considered "Aryan..." Oh, wait. This is Himmler we're talking about. Nevermind.
Why didn't the Hungarian Germans get to wear the SS Runes? Surely they would be considered "Aryan..." Oh, wait. This is Himmler we're talking about. Nevermind.
Assuming that you're talking about the Horst Wessel insignia, this was actually unrelated to the racial issue but the focus of an entirely different issue - the unit insignia is that of the Sturmabteilung, and Horst Wessel was a Nazi hero for his death (theoretically) in service to the SA. The reason it was an issue is, of course, that the SS and SA didn't precisely get along, and so Himmler bowed to making a German unit but they were volksdeutsche, rather than reichsdeutsche, so there was a snub in there too. Of course, the actual SA unit/s during the war were the ones later named Feldherrnhalle - they started the war as three regiments: Luftlande-Regiment Feldherrnhalle; 120. Infanterie-Regiment (mot); and 271. Infanterie-Regiment.
US army former insignias
according to History of American Ranks and Rank insignias (Steven Bingaman, 2012), A general order was released on 27 march of 1821 to the effect that Officers (except generals) were to replace their epaulettes with chevrons of buttons colours (gold or silver) to be worn on the upper arms:
- Colonels = 3 chevrons on each arms
- Lieutenant colonel = 2 chevrons on each arms
- major = one chevron on each arms
- Captain = one chevron on right arm
- lieutenant = one chevron on left arm
There is no proof that officers actualy followed through and in july of the same year, uniforms regulation that were released still prescribed epaulettes for field officers but prescribed the following for lower officers and NCO:
- Captain = one chevron (gold or silver) point up on each upper arms
- lieutenant = one chevron (gold or silver) point up above each cuffs
- sergeant major/quartermaster sergeant = one chevron (white or yellow) point up on each upper arms
- sergeant/senior musician = one chevron (white or yellow) point up above each cuffs
- corporal = one chevron (white or yellow) point up above right cuff
the system was dropped in 1833 in favour of one similar to the current one.
A secondary method of rank identification related to buttons on cuffs introduced in 1832 was the following pattern:
- Field officers = 4 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (silver or gold)
- captains = 3 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (silver or gold)
- lieutenant = 2 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (silver or gold)
- senior NCO = 4 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (white or yellow)
- sergeants and equivalent = 3 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (white or yellow)
- corporals and equivalent= 2 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (white or yellow)
In addition to the preceding, the following distinctions were added in 1839:
- Generals = 4 buttons with button holes outlined with gold oak leaves and acorn
- Field officers = 4 diagonal 1/2 inches gold stripes above the cuffs
- captains = 3 diagonal 1/2 inches gold stripes above the cuffs
- first lieutenant = 2 diagonal 1/2 inches gold stripes above the cuffs
- second lieutenants = 1 diagonal 1/2 inches gold stripe above the cuffs
These cuffs distinctions were all eliminated in 1851 and replaced with golden austrian knots above the cuffs made with a variable number of cords (eliminated on all combat-related orders of dress in 1902 and then altogheter in 1926):
generals = 5 cords in a double knot
colonel = 5 cords
lieutenant colonel = 4 cords
major = 3 cords
captain = 2 cords
1st lieutenant = 1 cord
2nd lieutenant = n/a (they received a single brown cord on the overcoat in 1917)
Navy style stiff shoulder boards with army insignias were proposed in 1937 but never adopted (design details are not given but one assume it would have been the rank insignia below the branch insignia with facing colour backing).
according to History of American Ranks and Rank insignias (Steven Bingaman, 2012), A general order was released on 27 march of 1821 to the effect that Officers (except generals) were to replace their epaulettes with chevrons of buttons colours (gold or silver) to be worn on the upper arms:
- Colonels = 3 chevrons on each arms
- Lieutenant colonel = 2 chevrons on each arms
- major = one chevron on each arms
- Captain = one chevron on right arm
- lieutenant = one chevron on left arm
There is no proof that officers actualy followed through and in july of the same year, uniforms regulation that were released still prescribed epaulettes for field officers but prescribed the following for lower officers and NCO:
- Captain = one chevron (gold or silver) point up on each upper arms
- lieutenant = one chevron (gold or silver) point up above each cuffs
- sergeant major/quartermaster sergeant = one chevron (white or yellow) point up on each upper arms
- sergeant/senior musician = one chevron (white or yellow) point up above each cuffs
- corporal = one chevron (white or yellow) point up above right cuff
the system was dropped in 1833 in favour of one similar to the current one.
A secondary method of rank identification related to buttons on cuffs introduced in 1832 was the following pattern:
- Field officers = 4 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (silver or gold)
- captains = 3 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (silver or gold)
- lieutenant = 2 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (silver or gold)
- senior NCO = 4 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (white or yellow)
- sergeants and equivalent = 3 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (white or yellow)
- corporals and equivalent= 2 buttons with button holes outlined in lace (white or yellow)
In addition to the preceding, the following distinctions were added in 1839:
- Generals = 4 buttons with button holes outlined with gold oak leaves and acorn
- Field officers = 4 diagonal 1/2 inches gold stripes above the cuffs
- captains = 3 diagonal 1/2 inches gold stripes above the cuffs
- first lieutenant = 2 diagonal 1/2 inches gold stripes above the cuffs
- second lieutenants = 1 diagonal 1/2 inches gold stripe above the cuffs
These cuffs distinctions were all eliminated in 1851 and replaced with golden austrian knots above the cuffs made with a variable number of cords (eliminated on all combat-related orders of dress in 1902 and then altogheter in 1926):
generals = 5 cords in a double knot
colonel = 5 cords
lieutenant colonel = 4 cords
major = 3 cords
captain = 2 cords
1st lieutenant = 1 cord
2nd lieutenant = n/a (they received a single brown cord on the overcoat in 1917)
Navy style stiff shoulder boards with army insignias were proposed in 1937 but never adopted (design details are not given but one assume it would have been the rank insignia below the branch insignia with facing colour backing).
Canadian concept insignias
Concept insignias from 1985 when some wanted the unified Canadian armed forces to revert to its 3 components. Of relevance right now as the government has announced the army will readopt the system of pips and crowns (design not published yet).
Concept insignias from 1985 when some wanted the unified Canadian armed forces to revert to its 3 components. Of relevance right now as the government has announced the army will readopt the system of pips and crowns (design not published yet).
http://api.ning.com/files/3FqqL8Ga2...k1qKhXQRT5IlNmy/20101022_034621.jpg?width=454
I'm guessing these gents are Imperial Russians, and the guy on the left is a motobike driver, which seems pretty AH-y as the Russian Army was backwards and I've never seen pictures of them driving bikes.
EDIT:
I'm not sure what country, but it looks rather eccentric.
I'm guessing these gents are Imperial Russians, and the guy on the left is a motobike driver, which seems pretty AH-y as the Russian Army was backwards and I've never seen pictures of them driving bikes.
EDIT:
I'm not sure what country, but it looks rather eccentric.
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french the guys wear the képi bleu.
they are students of the École militaire interarmes
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EMIA_Bastille_Day_2007.jpg
they are students of the École militaire interarmes
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EMIA_Bastille_Day_2007.jpg
Ohhhh! That makes sense. Still, I was expecting Eastern Europe (Poland or Ukraine or something). Thanks for the info!
some uniforms can be rather strange.
this bastille day parade page, has lots of pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastille_Day_military_parade
this bastille day parade page, has lots of pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastille_Day_military_parade
While not completely ephemeral, the Czechoslovak Legion uniforms aren't that famous or easy to find on the net :
http://www.karelvasatko.cz/historie-ceskoslovenskych-legii/vyzbroj-a-vystroj/ruske-legie
http://www.karelvasatko.cz/historie-ceskoslovenskych-legii/vyzbroj-a-vystroj/ruske-legie
Don't let this thread die, guys! This has been an excellent one.
Here are some armor suits from WWI/1920s(crossposting from Photos from Alternate Worlds EDIT: I mean Things that look like AH thread):
Cobra Commander?!
Here are some armor suits from WWI/1920s(crossposting from Photos from Alternate Worlds EDIT: I mean Things that look like AH thread):
Cobra Commander?!
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E.L.M. Burns was a canadian lieutenant-general who was involved in the early days of UN peacekeeping operations. He served as the first commander of the United Nations Emergency Forces following the Suez Crisis from 1956 to 1959.
One problem that was quickly pointed out was that canadian soldiers in the UN contingent wore uniforms that were identical to british ones save for the small canada badge on the shoulder and since the UK were involved in the conflict, blue headgears (helmets and berets) were adopted for all non-combatants.
General Burns decided to go further and get the ball rolling for a full UN uniform by having 2 tailor made ones for himself. Both were in term of cut as for a canadian/british general but one was dark blue and the other was white with a white and dark blue visor cap. The gorget patches were white on pale blue and instead of wearing his usual lieutenant-general rank insignia and Canadian general hat badge, he simply wore a UN logo on both should and cap.
His successor, Indian Lieutenant-General P. S. Gyani did not appear to share his views on the matter and no single uniform elements were ever adopted beyond the blue beret with UN badge.
Lieutenant General Burns can be seen to the right on both these pictures.
One problem that was quickly pointed out was that canadian soldiers in the UN contingent wore uniforms that were identical to british ones save for the small canada badge on the shoulder and since the UK were involved in the conflict, blue headgears (helmets and berets) were adopted for all non-combatants.
General Burns decided to go further and get the ball rolling for a full UN uniform by having 2 tailor made ones for himself. Both were in term of cut as for a canadian/british general but one was dark blue and the other was white with a white and dark blue visor cap. The gorget patches were white on pale blue and instead of wearing his usual lieutenant-general rank insignia and Canadian general hat badge, he simply wore a UN logo on both should and cap.
His successor, Indian Lieutenant-General P. S. Gyani did not appear to share his views on the matter and no single uniform elements were ever adopted beyond the blue beret with UN badge.
Lieutenant General Burns can be seen to the right on both these pictures.
Here is another set of prototype body armor from the Great War.
Light Body Armor
Reports from American Headquarters in France indicated the need of producing a body armor which would protect the front and back alike and which was of such a weight that it could be carried by an infantryman with minimum discomfort. Trials had earlier been made with several types of British body shields but they had proved unsatisfactory.
For the new defense a maximum weight of seven or eight pounds was recommended. A body armor which was aimed at meeting this requirement was produced by the engineering Division of the Ordinance Department. This defense consisted of a plastron which was attached to the blackplate by means of shoulder straps; these terminated in metal plates having openings like keyholes which fitted to pegs on the breastplate. The breastplate was formed of three plates held together by leather strips, to the lowest of which was laced a "sporran plate" protecting the groin. Between each pair of plates a small piece of leather was inserted attached by the same rivets which held the plates together on the back of the breastplate. These aimed to prevent rattling when the breastplate was worn.
The present defense covered the front of the body of the wearer quite completely and its size was so arranged that it could be worn by men of various heights and weights. In the case of a man of short stature, it might be worn without the sporran plate. In molding the uppermost element of this breastplate care was taken to allow considerable latitude for the movements of the shoulders and arms of the wearer; thus, space was given, especially on the right side, to enable the infantryman to use his rifle.
A cushioning was arranged within this breastplate in the form of a sponge-rubber pad nearly one inch in thickness. This kept the uppermost part of the defense at a sufficient distance from the body of the wearer to render him safe from an injury which might be caused by the indentation of the plate. This cushion was vulcanized to the metal by means of a new process, the so called "acid cure," wherein it is not necessary to heat the metal and run the risk of drawing its temper. The metal used for this defense was manganese steel .036 inch to .040 inch in thickness. Its ballistic test showed that it would uniformly resist penetration of revolver ammunition at 850 foot seconds.
Such a defense would render the wearer reasonably immune to shrapnel, splinters, spent balls, and even to rifle fire, in case the bullet impinged at a considerable angle. The backplate accompanying the foregoing defense is also laminated; it is made up of a large upper plate, two intermediate pieces, and a lowermost plate or garde reins. These elements are riveted together and made inter flexible by the way of slotted grooves in which the rivets can travel as in the old-fashioned "alemayne rivets." The backplate like the breastplate is designed to suit wearers of many sizes and to be worn with a considerable degree of comfort. It is cushioned with sponge rubber which protects the wearer against injuries caused by the indentation of the metal.
The backplate is provided with belt straps which pass between the breatplate and the main leather straps, holding together the wide plates of this defense. A second type of backplate is shown in Fig. 199 and 200. This modeled in a single piece and so designed that it will fit backs of various sizes. It can be worn comfortably under the pack, if need be, and furnishes a considerable degree of protection. Like the former backplate it is made of manganese steel .036 inch to .040 inch in thickness and is not penetrated by service ammunition of the automatic revolver at 850 foot seconds. We note that with the experimental lot here described some of the breastplates were furnished with shoulder plates similar to those seen in Figs 189 or 192 but of greater length. These could be so molded by the wearer that they would lie close to his shoulder blade and help to keep the defense in position without further attachment.
There can be no question, however, that the corselets provided with the type of shoulder plates shown in Fig 196 are the better from the the armorr's point of view, since the other type of attachment did not prevent the breasteplate from "hiking up" or from becoming detached in case the wearer threw himself on the ground or even when he made certain movements in bending. The present defense weight, front and back together, eight and one half pounds.
Other French Uniformes d'Essai 1897-1912.
1897: basically adopted except for the helmet.
1902: artillery helmet
1903: the 'Boër' uniform, probably the most original, yet practical, attempt
1906: the 'beige blue' (actually blueish grey) uniform
1911: "Réséda" already mentioned
1912: the Detaille uniform, already mentioned
Attempts of combinations of the 'elegant' Detaille uniform (with garance trousers) with previous, more discreet tested uniforms:
from left to right: Detaille with beige blue tunic, Detaille with réséda tunic, full Detaille.
1897: basically adopted except for the helmet.
1902: artillery helmet
1903: the 'Boër' uniform, probably the most original, yet practical, attempt
1906: the 'beige blue' (actually blueish grey) uniform
1911: "Réséda" already mentioned
1912: the Detaille uniform, already mentioned
Attempts of combinations of the 'elegant' Detaille uniform (with garance trousers) with previous, more discreet tested uniforms:
from left to right: Detaille with beige blue tunic, Detaille with réséda tunic, full Detaille.
The US Navy briefly trialed a "haze grey" uniform after the second world war. It was apparently decided to change back to the more traditional one as it was felt it looked too much like an Air Force uniform.
A first attempt at modernising the Soviet uniform was the so-called zhukov uniform (after the ministerat the time) adopted for dress occasions in 1955. Aparently even the minister hated it for looking both too naval and too german and it was replaced less then 3 years later.
