Reds! Official Fanfiction Thread (Part Two)

[Mr. C]

When last we left Henry Darger, he was alone in the world, not knowing about the massive upheavals going on just outside his window. Now, has he made a new friend? Find out more in...

Welcome to the Realms of the Unreal

Part 2: The Gemini's Secret Sister


“Well, it’s certainly unique. I’ve never seen anything like this…”


Once again, Anna had found herself in the company of Henry Darger. She had no idea why, but ever since they first met, they’ve been running into each other every day. While she was on her break, Henry found her and invited her into his apartment to look at his art. He was clearly nervous, and afraid of what she would say. Later, Anna would learn that this would be the first time Henry Darger invited anyone to his apartment.


“But do you like it?” said Henry, getting anxious. Truth be told, Anna didn’t really know what to say. She was afraid of hurting Henry’s feelings--despite being around twice her age, the man seemed to be somewhat childlike. But at the same time, some of the images he had drawn were frightening to her. All these pictures of kids getting dismembered, of naked children...was this man a serial killer? A pedophile? Both at once?


And most troubling of all, why did his girls have penises?


Eventually, she broke her silence. “I liked a lot of it. But it’s very...odd. I gotta ask a few questions.”


“I’m all ears. I know some of my stuff might be weird to some people.”


Understatement of the century, Anna thought. “First of all...you do know we girls don’t have penises, right?”


Henry chuckled. “Well, I know. But it has been a while since the last time I checked.”


Anna frowned. “Are you propositioning me?”


“What do you mean?”


“Don’t play dumb. Are you trying to fuck me?”


Henry seemed shocked. “The thought of that never crossed my mind. I’ve never really experienced a stirring in the undergrowth for anyone.”


Anna paused. Huh, so he actually did want me to see his art, she thought. “I’m sorry, I’m too used to men doing funny stuff like that.”


“No, I should be the one apologizing to you! I had no idea it could be seen like that. I’m not really used to, ah, talking to other people.”


Anna chuckled. “Well, hopefully under socialism you can be more social!”


They both laughed.


“But back to my question, why do they have penises?”


“It’s the source of their power! It’s what makes them stronger than the Glandelinians!”


“...that just raises more questions.”


“Have you ever heard of the story of St. Vibia Perpetua? It’s a Catholic thing, but it goes like this: Vibia Perpetua was a noblewoman of ancient Carthage under the Romans. The Emperor of Rome hated the Christians and the Hebrews, and made converting to any of those religions illegal. But Vibia saw God and became a Christian. Her father hated her for it, and reported her to the police. Vibia and her companions were put in jail, where she had a vision. In that vision, she turned into a man, a valiant gladiator. And then during her trial, she and her companions were forced to become gladiators themselves!”


“What happened to her?”


“A male gladiator tried to kill her and failed. So she took his sword and martyred herself for Christ”


“And what does that have to do with your little Vivian Girls having penises?”


“Well, in her vision, Vibia become a strong man. But in the actual arena, she wasn’t a strong man. She had to overpower a strong man to become a martyr. I believe that in that brief moment when she took that gladiator’s blade, she became something other than male or female, something of great power. When the Vivian Girls are fighting those nasty child slavers, they become more than just little girls. They become betwixt and between the categories of ‘boy’ and ‘girl’, becoming something stronger than what those mere labels can give them. That’s what makes them stronger...they don’t limit themselves to one gender.”


Anna took a moment to think over what she had just heard. For someone who was too busy painting to notice the Revolution, Henry Darger clearly had some radical ideas. He’d be a great comrade.


Tears began rolling down Henry’s face. “I wish I could be like that sometimes. I hate having to be a man all the time.”


Anna hugged the man. “I know it sounds weird, but I like your art. The Vivian Girls are really cute and brave! And I would just love to join your Children’s Protection Society


Henry regained his composure. “Really? Oh, how wonderful! I wish Whillie could be here right now to see my new friend.”


“Well, I can arrange something…”


---------------------------------------------------


William Schloeder hated the weather in South Texas. First, it would get really hot. Then it would get colder, just as he was starting to get used to the heat. Then it would get hot again just as he was starting to get used to the cold. But he loved the people of Texas. They were decent, honest folk, with big hearts and even bigger stomachs


Still, he missed Chicago. At least the weather there made sense. And above all else, he missed Henry Darger. He missed his smile, he missed how sweet and genuine he was. He was an eternal innocent, untainted by any demon. At times, Whillie wondered what Darger thought their relationship was. Is he homosexual? Of course not, he’s too pure for sex, thought Whillie. He makes Mother Mary look like Mae West! But I can’t deny there’s something more than just friendship going on. He follows me around like a lost little girl. Maybe that’s what he is...a lost little girl trapped in the body of a grown man.

And I’m her big brother.


Just then, someone came. “Sargeant Schloeder, you’ve got a message from a Mr. Henry Darger.”


Speak of the devil! How’s he been up to?


Whillie grabbed the letter, his hands trembling.


DEAREST WHILLIE


CAN YOU BELIEVE IT? I’VE MADE A NEW FRIEND! SHE’S A RED JUST LIKE YOU! HER NAME IS ANNA TEITELBAUM AND SHE WANTS TO JOIN OUR CHILDREN’S PROTECTIVE SOCIETY. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE!


BEST WISHES FROM CHICAGO,


HENRY


Whillie cried, just a little. He got out a pen and paper and wrote a message back.


Dear Henry and Anna,


AYE!


With love, Whillie

---------------------

"...and it was then, after the battle of Jennie Richee, that the saintly Vivian Girls gained a new ally. Their call for help, as recounted earlier in Chapter 9, was ignored by all Earthly nations except one--America. The Americans, who had finished overthrowing the Glandelinian controlled government, were sending their own Red Army to aid the Vivian Girls in their Great Crusade against the Child Slave Empires. General Darger and Schloeder met with the leader of the Red Army, the headstrong Hebrew Anna Teitelbaum, and together the Gemini found their metaphorical Helen of Troy..."
-from In The Realms of the Unreal, Book 3, Volume 5, Chapter 12.

 

[Miss Teri]

Welcome to the Realms of the Unreal

Part 2: The Gemini's Secret Sister

I'm really liking these so far, can't wait to see where it goes.

 

[Alexander the Average]

Now I want to read the actual The Story of the Vivian Girls, in What Is Known as the Realms of the Unreal, of the Glandeco-Angelinian War Storm, Caused by the Child Slave Rebellion.

 

[Mr. C]

Now I want to read the actual The Story of the Vivian Girls, in What Is Known as the Realms of the Unreal, of the Glandeco-Angelinian War Storm, Caused by the Child Slave Rebellion.

Well, the full novel hasn't been published yet aside from some brief excerpts in art books and the internet. It's a little over 15,000 pages long and Darger never made a definitive conclusion IOTL (he wrote two endings, one where the Vivians won and freed the children and another where Earth gets conquered by the Glandelinians).

Here's an excerpt, which was the main inspiration for the passage. According to the few people who have access to the original books, Darger's prose had occasional flashes of brilliance buried under maudlin, repetitive, amateurish prose. Still, there's a certain charm to it, in the same way as stories written by small children. Reminds me of some of the stories I wrote when I was a wee one.

(Fun fact: Darger's design the leader of the Glandelinians, General John Manley, was traced from a newspaper photo of Tsar Nicholas II. Make of that what you will...)

 

[Bookmark1995]

Well, the full novel hasn't been published yet aside from some brief excerpts in art books and the internet. It's a little over 15,000 pages long and Darger never made a definitive conclusion IOTL (he wrote two endings, one where the Vivians won and freed the children and another where Earth gets conquered by the Glandelinians).

Here's an excerpt, which was the main inspiration for the passage. According to the few people who have access to the original books, Darger's prose had occasional flashes of brilliance buried under maudlin, repetitive, amateurish prose. Still, there's a certain charm to it, in the same way as stories written by small children. Reminds me of some of the stories I wrote when I was a wee one.

(Fun fact: Darger's design the leader of the Glandelinians, General John Manley, was traced from a newspaper photo of Tsar Nicholas II. Make of that what you will...)

That Darger sounds like a protagonist from a Tim Burton: he has a bizarre morality that is tempered by a charming innocence.

You sir deserve a like. Because you created an alternate history that taught me something about our own.

 

[Miss Teri]

The Heart of A Dog

1962 Soviet-American live action science fiction-comedy film directed by Charles Barton [1], and produced by Walt Disney for Hyperion Live-Action. It is based on Mikhail Bulgakov's novel of the same name

In 1924 Moscow, a stray dog named Sharik is taken in by a Dr. Preobrazhensky, who holds him up as a show dog. Preobrazehnsky, a former White, lives in relative safety thanks to his treatment of high ranking Politiburo members. While Sharik tries to become a favored pet of Preobrazhensky, Preobrazhensky has other plans for his new pet. While Sharik is attacking a stuffed owl, Preobrazhensky and his assistant Bormenthal sedates the dog, and takes him to his operating table. There, he places a pituitary gland in the dog's brain. Preobrazhensky is attempting to improve the human race, and is hoping that by inserting a pituitary gland into a savage animal, like a dog, it will become more civilized and subsequently more man-like in appearance. Sharik at first ironically becomes more untamed and savage. However, he gradually becomes more civilized and intelligent. While they are pleased by the results at first, they become more horrified, when Sharik becomes more ruthless and cutthroat, even managing to snag papers calling himself "Poligraf Poligrafovich Sharikov". Using this identity, he gradually works his way up the apparatchik (primarily as a killer of stray cats). Eventually, the Professor sees the danger of Sharikov, and conspires with Bormenthal to take him down. This culminates in an incident where they confront each other over Sharikov's behavior. They subdue Sharikov, and reverse the surgery. However, they are arrested, after Sharikov revealed Preobrazhensky's history of illegal surgeries. The film ends with Sharik, now a normal dog, being given to a new family, and him considering a painting on the wall.

Heart of A Dog, after being banned in the USSR after its completion in 1925, was finally published in 1958, along with other previously banned works in the USSR, with the steady beginning of liberalization. Disney himself came across the story whilst visiting the USSR, and became interested in adapting it for film. Whilst the story remained mostly accurate to the book's events, the ending was changed so that both Preobrazhensky and Bromenthal are also punished for their actions, in order to appease Soviet authorities. It was moderately successful, though many criticized the changes from the book. A closer adaptation was made by Mosfilm in 1981, with the original ending intact. A French animated film was also made in 2011.
[1] He directed the Shaggy Dog OTL

 

[BootOnFace]

When last we left Henry Darger

I love it. Made me tear up a little. Basically everything about Henry Darger triggers my crying reflex. It's like watching a Pixar movie.

 

[Mr. C]

I love it. Made me tear up a little. Basically everything about Henry Darger triggers my crying reflex. It's like watching a Pixar movie.

I'm a sentimental bastard and I'm proud of it.

Part 3 is coming within a week or two, but here's a pulpy preview:

Now, dear reader, on our next venture into these Realms of the Unreal, we shall encounter many strange and wonderful things, including but not limited to:

A trip back in time to watch Little Henry Darger's daring escape from the madhouse! Watch him as he braves a wicked storm and fights his own demons!

"I had structure, I had discipline, I had friends. I was in heaven. Am I enough of a fool to run away from heaven? As it turns out, yes I was!"

The first meeting between Whillie and Anna as the Gemini reunite at Fairyland!

"So, is Henry...into musicals?"

"He prefers choir music."

"No, I mean--"

"I knew what you mean. Tell me, would you imagine Henry Darger having sex with anyone?"

Anna paused. "No, I can't."

"Exactly!"

And the Vivian Girls gain new allies:

"...soon, other Earthly nations joined the crusade on Abbieania. The Red Russians sent their finest female soldiers, as did the wise and honorable Chinese. The hardy Mexicans sent a battalion under the name of Our Lady of Guadelupe, and the Spaniards rebuilt old churches as shrines to the saintly sisters. From Berlin, to London, to Bombay and Bagdad (sic), the tide was turning..."

 

[Miss Teri]

Agents of UNCLE

Agents of UNCLE is a British espionage television program, airing between 1963-1968 on ITV. It centers on a fictional organization called UNCLE, or the "United Nations Command for Law Enforcement"[1], an international law enforcement and counter-espionage agency, inspired by organizations like Interpol and the JSB, dedicated to fighting the forces of "international crime and terrorism", often forces that both Comintern and the Entente oppose. It purportedly operates in many nations around the world, in both capitalist and communist nations.

The show centers around two agents working together within the organization: "Napoleon Solo" (David McCallum), an English-Scottish JSB agent and "June Driver" (Roberta Benchley*, a Canadian actress), a serving member of the American Revolutionary Marines. (The names were given courtesy of James Bond creator Ian Fleming.) The two follow orders from the Director of UNCLE, Antonio Marques (Anselmo Duarte), who answers directly to the Secretary-General of the UN. The male-female agent team-up is another riff on The Avengers, though there is little sexual tension between the two. Rather the main thrust is their political differences, and how they overcome this to work in a efficient, professional manner

While they fight a variety of threats, ranging from international diamond smugglers to rouge UNCLE agents, throughout the series, their main recurring enemy is SQUID (acronym for "Subversives Questing for Underdealing, Impurity, and Degradation", as revealed by supplemental materials), a massive criminal enterprise rumored to have been founded by former Nazis, and now a sort of "anti"- UNCLE, with it being a coordination effort by multiple crime syndicates for further efficiency.

The series would prove massive popular and influential throughout its run, both in the FBU/ECF, and when it aired during the late 60's and early 70's in the UASR. Many similarly named organizations with convenient acronyms popped up in popular culture (including Marvel's SHIELD). David McCallum would become a minor superstar for his role, and Roberta Benchley would become a minor sex symbol for her role, and would be praised as a major positive portrayal of a loyal American socialist within capitalist Europe. Many prominent actors and actresses would appear as guest villains or guest allies. Notably, there was a crossover between UNCLE and The Avengers in 1965

During its run, a number of tie-in books and other supplementary materials were made, which have continued to be made after its cancellation. Several compilation movies from the most notable arcs of the series was made in 1974-1975 (with new materials filmed showing the agents reminiscing on their adventures),which, due to the anticipation and acclaim, were released to theaters, to moderate success. A sequel series was then commissioned, though with the Red Turn, Benchley became unavailable, so the show became Solo:The Man from UNCLE, which aired for 3 series in 1981-1983. Though praised, many fans compare it unfavorably to the original. When Cold War tensions finally thawed, Benchley and Solo reunited for Agents of UNCLE:The Twenty-Two Year Affair, in 1990, where the two (who had retired), brought in to fight the revived SQUID's plot to build and sell neutron bombs to Rhodesia and other rogue states.

A new remake series aired for 4 series on EBC-2 in 2008, starring Benedict Cumberbatch as Solo, Sandy Scott* (ironically descended from American emigres from the revolution) as Driver, and Davi Andrade de Salles* as Antonio Marques.


[1] OTL, it's the "United Network Command for Law Enforcement"

 

[Miss Teri]

Excerpt from "The Peace Movement: Nuclear Disarmament in the Late 20th Century", by Tariq Nawfal (London: Oxford University, 2010)

[...] The World Peace Association was formed in 1961 from a dissident faction of the World Peace Council. This faction had become increasingly concerned that the WPC was being used by Comintern as a means of advancing their own agenda. Notably, whilst the WPC railed against FBU nuclear testing and build-up on a regular basis, it had failed continually to criticize similar (and larger) actions by the UASR and USSR. Indeed, the American Peace Council, the American member of the Council (which, by all accounts, was the one directing the organization, taking directives from Section 1) had justified the increased nuclear tests from Comintern members in the 50's. Inspired by the rise of non-aligned anti-nuclear movements,such as the CND/CDN [Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament/ Campagne pour le désarmement nucléaire] in the FBU, the WPA was formed by several members from Comintern nations. They came out with their own Congress in Warsaw the same year the WPC did in Moscow, heavily criticizing the arms build-up in Comintern, stating that their stockpile was larger than the FBU's and allies by a significant degree.

Almost with its creation and open non-aligned nature, criticism of the group was immediate. The WPC accused it and other non-aligned campaigns of "splintering" the peace movement. Some, like William F. Buckley and Whittaker Chambers, opined that the "hand of the Franco-British corporate-military machine" was behind this split, since they had a vested interest in seeing Comintern disarmed. They weren't alone in suggesting (ironically, given that the WPC was largely funded and operated by the American government) that the JSB and AFS interests had caused the group to form. The CSS and Stavka military intelligence (The Revolutionary Military Committee) began to investigate the group, attempting to find any potential ties between its members and Franco-British intelligence or Corporations. The following WPA conference in East Rome was bugged. The former also increased clandestine funding to the WPC and other front groups to counter the claims of the WPA about the Comintern arms build-up.

[...]

The investigation of the CSS against peace groups protesting the nuclear stockpile in Comintern continued into the 70's and 80's, as the anti-nuclear movement grew worldwide. Section 1 soon had a number of files on various organizations, monitoring them and any involvement with Franco-British forces. In 1970, an investigation was launched into the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists after they had cited the mass build-up of nuclear arms by the UASR as one of the reasons the doomsday clock had been moved to four minutes to Midnight. Targeted was the British-based publisher of the journal, Taylor and Francis, though the resulting report stated that "no evidence has been given that any interests have been influencing the content of the Bulletin". After the Crisis of 1979, and the rise of other anti-nuclear movements lead to similar investigations. In most cases, including the multiple investigations into the WPA over its existence, little to no evidence was given for any Franco-British collusion.

The irony, given the JSB extensive investigation for communist ties within the European anti-nuclear movement was not lost on one CND volunteer interviewed in 1985: "Here, they think we're communists. There, they think we're capitalists."

----------------------

 

[Bookmark1995]

Curiositynews.uk

A Right Wing Radio Star Deranged Rants Has Made her an Unexpected Celebrity Among Miami's Cubans

Michael Shannon

March 10, 2010

Havana, Cuba is the economic, political, and communications hub of the Capitalist Caribbean. It is said that there are more radio stations per capita in the city than anywhere else in the world. However, most of these places are not meant for rock n' roll or Cuban jazz fusion, but pure propaganda for the so-called "Red-Occupied Territory" [1].

For over seven decades, the Cuban nation has served as a base for the American government-in-exile. White Americans and their descendants are often seen by Cuban natives as brutal imperialists who have treated their nation like a colony.

This was especially true in the MacArthur years, where MacArthur and his followers terrorized the Cuban people and plundered the wealth of the Cuban nation, to fund and develop a war machine that could eventually topple the UASR.

But after World War II, MacArthur, though not abandoning his dream of planting the Stars and Stripes in Debs, realized that military conflict was not enough, and that he needed a new strategy: propaganda and psychological warfare.

Among the many (futile) attempts to convince millions of Americans to reject Communism were large radio stations, some state sponsored, some not.

The most well known one is Radio Free America (or Radio America Libre) [2], also known as RFA. Established in 1948, it is broadcast throughout the Blue world.

While it has always provided a somewhat slanted view of Red America, in the late 1940s and to late 1960s, the highly reactionary Charles Coughlin used the RFA for his own ridiculous diatribes against the Reds. His bombastic rhetoric against Reds made him a hero to the American exile class, and an infamous enemy to the many Cubans exiles who, inspired by listening to Revolution Radio in Miami, jumped onto whatever floated to reach American shores.

"Listening to Coughlin was like a Jew listening to Hitler," says Agusto Sinferles, a manager of Revolution Radio and a Cuban exile who fled in 1956 when he was 10.

Since the late 60s, the RFA has evolved into a standard radio station, and no longer enjoys the popularity it once did. But new radio stations continue to beam their anti-Red invective into the mainland, hoping to finally bring about MacArthur's fabled return.

Havana's Tokyo Rose

But one person among Havana's exile radio community has gained the same notoriety in the Red occupied territory as Coughlin-albeit not for the reason she expected.

In WLBB station, located 5 miles west of the city center, Maria Mariosa broadcasts her Hora De La Verdad (Hour of Truth) from 14:00-15:00. Her daily diatribes are anything but truth.

"Today," she says from the radio, "we will discuss the whore agenda of the Reds, and how they have poisoned generations of innocents."

She spends the next hour screaming about how the prostitutes of Miami are hypocrites for opposing marital rape.

"They deny a women the right to please her husband, but then penalize a man for demanding a wife fulfill her duties," [2] she blares into the speaker. "If that isn't Red hypocrisy, I don't know what."

Don't be fooled, however: she has said far, far nastier things about Red America. Among her many, many outrages include calling Matthew Heimbach, the leader of the neo-Nazi Traditionalist Worker Party, "the most courageous man since MacArthur." She claimed that Christopher Columbus' murder of natives was justified to spread Christianity.

Maria Mariosa first gained attention in 2015, 1 year after her debut, when she called the then-recently deceased Denis Healey "a cockroach not worthy of my boot", proving that her targets are not just limited to the giant to the north.

Born in 1981, Mariosa's youth background is something of a mystery. What is verifiable is that she obtained a degree in journalism from the University of Havana in March 2004, but her background has been subject to much controversy. On her website, she claimed to have come from "a devout family of God-fearing Americans (what many pro-yuma Cubans will call themselves)".

However, one exile had a more sordid depiction of her past: In 2017, Yasmin Rossi, a Cuban exile and exotic dancer, claimed to have been sent to a conversion therapy camp (aka, a camp that claims to cure "homosexuality") in the mid 1990s with Mariosa when they were both 14. She believes that her rhetoric is a desperate cry for help from psychological damage due to repressed lesbian desires.

"I knew so many poor girls like this who became cruel after having their identities smothered," Rossi said sadly in a phone interview. "I grew out of it and came to a place, but people like Mariosa still continue their desperate cries. It is really sad." [2]

Mariosa has not addressed these claims, but she has claimed to have escaped from a "sinful childhood with the help of godly people."

"She is just trying to find hope in the hell she was placed in," Rossi said.

The Unintentional Comedian

One would expect the very revolutionary Cubans to burn effigies of the women, if not pity her as Rossi has. But in WLSV, one of Miami's leading radio stations, DJ Carlos Perenti has a different take on the women.

"Now we bring you la payasa (clown) of Cuba, Mariosa Mentirosa (Mariosa Mentirosa)," he says into the microphone. In this radio station, Maria's political talk show is turned into a comedy show called Mariosa Mentirosa, where Mariosa's diatribes are given humorous commentary by Perenti.

In response to the rape comment, Perenti makes a joke involving nutrition and balanced breakfasts that I will not describe.

Perenti, the son of an Italian man and Cuban women, explains how such profane women could be so popular.

"Many exiles I've met have grown up under families who had politics like Mentirosa," says Perenti. "In our time, many Cubans have come to embrace the reactionary beliefs of their yuma masters. To many exiles, this is just their childhoods coming back to life dialed up to 11.

In the nearby studios, I do hear many Cubans laughing at this political lunacy given some mild commentary.

While most Havana exile radio stations are considered a bad joke, Maria has the dubious honor of a bad joke being given some light. She has made an impact-but in a way that she could possibly never comprehend.

[1] I can imagine this being a buzzword when Cubans refer to the mainland US.

[2] Phyllis Schalfly has said statements like this. Just one more turd from her large collection.

 

[EmpressCaitlin]

Would Red America suffer from the recent PC wave-microaggressions, safe spaces, over-entitled snowflakes.

In this study by Thoughty2, he explains how even satires of racism and bigotry would not be acceptable to his political wave. He points out how a show like All in the Family could not be made today because of the characters using racial slurs-despite the fact that it is more or less mocking the bigotry of Archie Bunker.

My impression is this: someone in the ITTL 1960s makes a show satirizing craven capitalism and racism. But then, someone in the modern day thinks that show is celebrating capitalism, and offends them. Suddenly, the subject is taboo, even if the work in question is of a satirical nature.

In the thread, and the previous one, Reds have the tendency to celebrate offensive material (that Amazon movie, and that movie about Johnny Birch or whatever) which I think is pretty cool. My guess is that since American Reds are secure in their superiority (which is more or less justified), this snowflake attitude isn't present.

But would there still be the kind of people who are triggered by offensive language and slurs, no matter the context, to the point that they force censorship of good art?

That’s a tad political, don’t you think? How about you take it to chat?

 

[Bookmark1995]

That’s a tad political, don’t you think? How about you take it to chat?

My question is about the mindset of an America consumed by Communist ideals. I'm not making a statement about PC Culture. I'm asking if such a culture exists in Red America, or if their belief in their own superiority stymies that.

 

[Nyvis]

My question is about the mindset of an America consumed by Communist ideals. I'm not making a statement about PC Culture. I'm asking if such a culture exists in Red America, or if their belief in their own superiority stymies that.

The words you chose to use are making a point for you. Maybe you didn't intend to, but it reads like a very critical take on the current culture. You're allowed your opinion, but if it shows in your posts, it should be in chat.

 

[Bookmark1995]

The words you chose to use are making a point for you. Maybe you didn't intend to, but it reads like a very critical take on the current culture. You're allowed your opinion, but if it shows in your posts, it should be in chat.

OK Forget what I said.

 

[Shevek23]

That’s a tad political, don’t you think? How about you take it to chat?

Hold on a second. I don't agree with @Bookmark1995 one bit on this of course, as I usually disagree with all of his meta remarks...amazing how he can have such an inverted view of the UASR OOC and yet write such sensitive and "with it" fanfic pieces, eh, it is like they are two different people!

But your comment really really worries me. The general ban on politics is on contemporary politics, on the grounds that people are partisan about the political arguments that are of this particular moment, and the candidates running today--people get hyperbolic saying "if your guy wins, rocks will fall, everyone dies, the gates of hell open and Ponyville-scorpion hybrids will pour out and poison everyone with Peep guts (OOc--never mind I already said we are all dead already, this is an endless hell nightmare rant here...)" etc etc and so on. Then my sister explains to me gravely how we have to vote for the candidates Jesus favors. It goes round like that and the Administration here presumably for reasons of sad precedent seeks to protect the site from it.

But--where do you draw the line between "current" politics and "politics in general?" Because I ask you, what could be more fatal to an Alternate History site than to have a ban on all politics? I'd argue that that's fatal to any sort of storytelling narrative whatsoever, that people are made of politics and everything we do is infused with it. Certainly if one conceives of everyday life as being divorced from it, or somehow defines a different category of political interaction for face to face, family and workplace stuff, and refuses to call it politics, and hives off "Real Politics" as having to do with nations...well anyway at least a city council or union board...still, is not this restricted set (arbitrarily restricted say I) still not the very lifeblood of history? (Indeed if you factor in the family friends workplace stuff you can understand history better, as in what goes through the minds of voters and stuff like that). Put a gag order on politics in general and we might as well shut down the site.

Couple of very very relevant points to your request:

1) Do you think the sort of right wing whining about PC and so forth is some kind of new thing? In loosely defined form it goes back to the 50s if not earlier, attacking progressive liberals as "eggheads" and "ivory tower" was a way of saying they were "snowflakes." The modern turbocharged "PC is destroying America!" in those exact words goes back to the 1980s. Now I'm becoming quite an old guy, immature as I remain in so many ways, and to me 1986 feels like yesterday, as in "when I went to bed last night." But there are people on this site, legally if I understand the age restriction correctly (14, isn't it?) who have lived less than half the span between then and now. Would you really want to live with a general rule that says "any issue that has a lot of buzz today and is currently deemed political is off the table for any discussion in any frame on AH Board topics, only allowable in Political Chat subforum?" "PC" as an accusation might seem like a new thing to you but how can I have a TL with a POD of say 1991 without at least having leeway to mention the fight as an aside? It could be done, but it would be editing reality for a G rating, and when you add up everything that either of the two consensus-acknowledged main "sides" (not identical to the two parties, just overlapping the party divide a lot) fight about today, you pretty much are going to find yourself restricted to pre-Civil War topics. And lo and behold, if you look at the fights going on then, darn if they don't wind up displaying the same pattern and same spectrum of sensibilities and same sorts of tactics as we are familiar with today! Before you know it someone is getting kicked for using Harriet Beecher Stowe as an expy for some modern feminist investigative journalist--only it turns out everything the poster alleged Stowe was saying and doing is ripped straight out of her own biography, writings, and general recorded history; the fictional linkages being clearly continuous with all the evidence. Because that's the kind of writer HBS was. (I am still in awe and a glow about how brisk and readable Uncle Tom's Cabin proved to be when I was forced to read it in a college history class--how I dreaded the idea of reading something "Victorian!" Then I found it was like Barbara Ehrenreich and Ursula Le Guin teamed up to novelize the hell out of the incidents they were literally ripping out of the headlines of the news of the 1850s).

Personally I think it is unfortunate that we have any bans on politics at any level or time frame in AH story lines. For one thing it is very very unclear to me where the lines between "contemporary" and "allowably far back in the past" is drawn; I suspect it is flexible based on a moderator's judgement on just how controversial current issues are and to what degree they reach back. Supposing for instance that some former Bush Jr official were to come forth with hard proof of election tampering in the 2004 election, and the current political landscape became consumed with this--presumably all of a sudden the entire 8 years of the GW Bush admin would become "contemporary politics and a bunch of perfectly OK TLs (as of the day before this scandal breaks) would get locked just for proceeding on the exact same lines they were on before. Now it's contemporary-controversial you see.

Well, it is always controversial, it does not matter whether the story is set in Sumeria in 6000 BCE and is about the invention of writing. To the suitably sensitive, anything has political overtones, even contemporary ones.

Vice versa it should be possible to discuss even yesterday's political news without ad hominem accusations including general denunciations of anyone who disagrees with someone as being agents of the Devil. The historically minded ought, better than anyone, to be able to disentangle from a polarized mindset of devils versus angels and recognize that people are ambiguous and multi-dimensioned beings caught in a spiderweb of interests and material compulsions and ideological specters haunt us all, and politely agree to disagree even as each of us expounds how the other must surely be leading us to the utter collapse of life on Earth and perhaps undermining the very material integrity of the Cosmos to its uttermost reaches, nay, threatening to collapse the great Multiverse itself into meaningless chaos because of our insane position on some primary election for the city council of Milwaukee. It shouldn't matter in principle if this controversial election in the city of Milwaukee was scheduled to happen in August of this year or actually happened in 1897. Normal people can roll their eyes and point out the latter is a bit of a done deal, but not us...we are fans of Alternate History and the election of Charlemagne is just as much a hot issue with us as that of who will be the next Republican House delegation leader and which of Majority or Minority that might be. I'd be a bit surprised if no one ever got banned for having too strong an opinion on the Gracchi to stay civil about it.

So I think it is most unfortunate we have this arbitrary rule here and I can name one TL that I stopped following solely because a moderator came in and warned against mentioning current politics there, when it seemed to me that contemporary political attitudes and divisions would surely carry right over into the innate logic of the TL--and therefore it was doomed to either get locked and its author banned, or else it would degenerate into a confused mass of Wonderland logic as its author and participants strive to make their expies tear loose arbitrarily and illogically from reasonable extrapolations of what people would really say and think. So, I turned sadly away from it. It has been rolling along just fine for a long time now, is now much too big for me to catch up, I missed the crucial formative pages and bitterly regret it.

If anyone wonders I am talking about Crunch Buttsteak's California ISOT by the way. I loved that concept! A mod killed it for me, and I really ought to go back and read through it to see how it stayed off the third rail. But I suspect it is 50/50 that it actually didn't, that people necessarily crossed any reasonable line between "contemporary" politics and OK to discuss "old" politics frequently out of necessity but fortunately no flame wars were reported and it exists because the Administration is not forced to take a hard look at it. Which is fine I think.

2)You like this TL, don't you? Look around us at the glass house we are in. We have a site owner on record who claims it is little more than sentiment and kind-heartedness that stops him from banning vast categories of self-named leftists as morally equivalent to Nazis and many of us have suffered to some extent in related flame wars. There are two routes to take here for us. We can internalize courtesy and adopt a broad, inclusive intellectual attitude and be slow to take offense, quick to credit good intentions, and be kind to one another and tolerant of diverse views. Doing so we maintain our freedom to talk seriously about some pretty deep human issues that those of us who think the TL has some structure of plausibility to stand on recognize as pretty far outside the political box. Or, we can, instead of asking ourselves to be paragons of open mindedness and courtesy, insist on all sorts of restrictive rules as to subject or example, and turn the TL itself into a Candyland.

It behooves us to be aware of and avoid violating site norms indeed. But I don't think building a fence around moderator demonstrated law is the way to go here. @Bookmark1995 did not cross a line into contemporary politics in any meaningful sense, he did not mention candidates or platforms. He is talking about public popular culture, and while I am the last person to deny that has a political dimension, if we took politics in the broadest sense to be our guide as far as site rules go we would find our hands tightly bound and our mouths gagged against saying anything meaningful about anything. I trust the administrators understand that too and will interpret "contemporary politics of OTL" pretty narrowly. Otherwise, I can hardly imagine how a story like the one I was panicked away from could persist. Hopefully by now it has gotten into safe territory but in the nature of things, if we ISOT a community from modern times of course they are going to carry over some version of OTL contemporary politics and it is a hell of a gun to the author's head to have to arbitrarily manipulate the story to provide a quick sharp break from the logic of real world partisanship carrying over on sheer inertia.

In a somewhat different way, this TL's entire raison d'etre is to hold up a mirror to our world. Otherwise we would not have the author choice to make characters so parallel to OTL ones.

Perhaps then it is wiser to put a limit on this Fanfic thread and create a forbidden zone of say 20 years prior to the present day and 10 years after it, in which stories cannot be set, lest they trespass in too pointed commentary to OTL's present day. That ought to protect us, but I think you can see that would require deleting a lot of good stuff that stands up well and is not crying out for censorship. Let's not go down that road.

 

[Bookmark1995]

-snip-

(Sigh)

I was asking a question about an ITTL attitude toward "offensive material". But once again, I feel like I've stepped on people's toes without meaning too.

Let's draw the line here, please?

Hold on a second. I don't agree with @Bookmark1995 one bit on this of course, as I usually disagree with all of his meta remarks...amazing how he can have such an inverted view of the UASR OOC and yet write such sensitive and "with it" fanfic pieces, eh, it is like they are two different people!

What do you mean by "sensitive" and "with it", in regard to my contributions?

 

[Nyvis]

I was asking a question about an ITTL attitude toward "offensive material". But once again, I feel like I've stepped on people's toes without meaning too.

You were referencing fairly recent reactions to the issue, and using terms overwhelmingly used by one side of the argument.

As Shevek said - sorry, I didn't read everything, tell me if I missed something - political correctness, and accusations of excessive sensitivity as a mean to discredit people disagreeing with bigoted ways is old news. And discussing political correctness as a whole in the context of the UASR could be interesting.

There would probably be less petty reaction to it. Though those are already a fringe OTL the right tries to blow out of proportion. On the other hand, there would probably be much quicker and stronger backlash when it steps into outright bigotry, as it would be associated with the reactionaries. Art and satire are probably safe on the other hand, because as you said, the reds would feel safer in their victory.

My main problem with your original question post was the way it was framed in very modern terms and words clearly paraphrasing right wing rhetoric used to paint anyone opposing bigotry as "snowflakes". I don't know if you personally feel that way or simply are so surrounded by it you didn't see it. Anyway, that's why I felt it belonged in chat.

 

[Bookmark1995]

You were referencing fairly recent reactions to the issue, and using terms overwhelmingly used by one side of the argument.

As Shevek said - sorry, I didn't read everything, tell me if I missed something - political correctness, and accusations of excessive sensitivity as a mean to discredit people disagreeing with bigoted ways is old news. And discussing political correctness as a whole in the context of the UASR could be interesting.

There would probably be less petty reaction to it. Though those are already a fringe OTL the right tries to blow out of proportion. On the other hand, there would probably be much quicker and stronger backlash when it steps into outright bigotry, as it would be associated with the reactionaries. Art and satire are probably safe on the other hand, because as you said, the reds would feel safer in their victory.

My main problem with your original question post was the way it was framed in very modern terms and words clearly paraphrasing right wing rhetoric used to paint anyone opposing bigotry as "snowflakes". I don't know if you personally feel that way or simply are so surrounded by it you didn't see it. Anyway, that's why I felt it belonged in chat.

I apologize. This was probably not the place for it. And I realize I went a bit far in my remarks. But I wondered how Reds ITTL contend with "offensive" material. But I should not have put it in those very terms.

 

[Edward_Elric]

I apologize. This was probably not the place for it. And I realize I went a bit far in my remarks. But I wondered how Reds ITTL contend with "offensive" material. But I should not have put it in those very terms.

There have already been segments of TTL which describe how offensive material is handled - with laughs. The posts about “anti-reaction movie nights” show that Red Americans view what we’d call problematic media through a lens of amusement.