Reds fanfic

Nazi russia tends to result in the most fun for a european war generally speaking. *Nods*

Also, what shark jumping moments? I think people in general are a bit too quiet with their criticisms regarding the timeline, leaving me, IP, and Jello in the dark regarding the fanbase's opinions.

The civil war is too short in my opinion, although I do think the setup for a near-perfect socialist victory is done better than a lot of timelines. I also understand that given the time constraints, it is difficult to square a longer American Civil War with a recognizable World War II - as Germany will either crush Russia easily or wait too long and be crushed easily itself. The bigger problem in my opinion is that it creates the impression that the counter-revolutionaries are just doing some of the things they do to help the socialists win, which might be explainable because we are seeing the war from a revolutionary perspective, but it is still irritating. Same problem as the Anglo/American-Nazi basically IMHO.

The biggest bugbear though is having Coughlin as president. Firstly he's too much of a character for MacArthur to be able to stomach and secondly there are way too many far-right protestant types who will pitch a fit about it and MacArthur needs them more than he needs the Catholics. [a disproportionate number, especially the immigrants of whom will either have gone atheist or side the revolutionaries] I think a non-entity is a more likely puppet for MacArthur (at least until the civil war is done and MacArthur can take office personally) but it isn't that big a deal anyway...

Its not really relevant to the wider thread but... This. So much. I love the idea of the KR mod, but its just so rarely satisfying in its execution.

Yep. I would quite like a mod for KR which has a relatively predictable path like the vanilla game but still can have a few things going differently each time. Its also why I don't particularly want a Darkest Hour mod of this timeline because I just don't think the AI can handle things like the American deployment to Russia in the face of a German and Japanese blockade.

On the subject of serialized films, damnit, I like cinematic universes! :p And I'd love a Tintin cinematic universe, it seems perfect in fact for a long series of films. It is probably partially due to the fact I find *serious* films unwatchable in the cinema, unless they are The Martian, and prefer to buy them on DVD or Blu-Ray. On the other hand, the mixture of grim-dark obsession in FBU culture and the higher pressure for profits, could mean that the FBU multiplexs are overrun with Batman vs. Superman quality films rather than Captain America: Civil War...

teg
 
Regarding a Reds! mod for HoI: HoI 4 has some very useful modding tools that we'll be able to use, like the file reloading while the game is running and the map tool.
 
The biggest bugbear though is having Coughlin as president. Firstly he's too much of a character for MacArthur to be able to stomach and secondly there are way too many far-right protestant types who will pitch a fit about it and MacArthur needs them more than he needs the Catholics. [a disproportionate number, especially the immigrants of whom will either have gone atheist or side the revolutionaries] I think a non-entity is a more likely puppet for MacArthur (at least until the civil war is done and MacArthur can take office personally) but it isn't that big a deal anyway...

Also, Coughlin wouldn't be eligible to be President, as he wasn't a natural born citizen due to being Canadian. Admittedly MacArthur probably isn't winning a lot of friends among the strict constitutionalist crowd at this point, but it seems like it would be an unnecessary addition to the already quite long list of possible objections to his regime.
 
The civil war is too short in my opinion, although I do think the setup for a near-perfect socialist victory is done better than a lot of timelines. I also understand that given the time constraints, it is difficult to square a longer American Civil War with a recognizable World War II - as Germany will either crush Russia easily or wait too long and be crushed easily itself. The bigger problem in my opinion is that it creates the impression that the counter-revolutionaries are just doing some of the things they do to help the socialists win, which might be explainable because we are seeing the war from a revolutionary perspective, but it is still irritating. Same problem as the Anglo/American-Nazi basically IMHO.

The biggest bugbear though is having Coughlin as president. Firstly he's too much of a character for MacArthur to be able to stomach and secondly there are way too many far-right protestant types who will pitch a fit about it and MacArthur needs them more than he needs the Catholics. [a disproportionate number, especially the immigrants of whom will either have gone atheist or side the revolutionaries] I think a non-entity is a more likely puppet for MacArthur (at least until the civil war is done and MacArthur can take office personally) but it isn't that big a deal anyway...

On the subject of serialized films, damnit, I like cinematic universes! :p And I'd love a Tintin cinematic universe, it seems perfect in fact for a long series of films. It is probably partially due to the fact I find *serious* films unwatchable in the cinema, unless they are The Martian, and prefer to buy them on DVD or Blu-Ray. On the other hand, the mixture of grim-dark obsession in FBU culture and the higher pressure for profits, could mean that the FBU multiplexs are overrun with Batman vs. Superman quality films rather than Captain America: Civil War...

teg

The revolution always seemed short to me. I always assumed such a conflict would last at least a year, not a few months. Although, I am no military expert, and I can't articulate why it should last a year. I suppose it's intuition.

I said Tintin, because I couldn't think of any other notable franchises that could be turned into serialized films from Western Europe. I suppose Judge Dredd or Asterix could also work
 

E. Burke

Banned
Also, Coughlin wouldn't be eligible to be President, as he wasn't a natural born citizen due to being Canadian. Admittedly MacArthur probably isn't winning a lot of friends among the strict constitutionalist crowd at this point, but it seems like it would be an unnecessary addition to the already quite long list of possible objections to his regime.

I'm pretty sure the Congress was just a bunch of McArthur's stooges at this point. Anyone with enough backbone to object had either already died or was on the front lines already. Its made pretty clear that the NSF was a hastily cobbled together coalition, and it's ideology was wholey artificial. McArthur constructed it out of whole cloth, he was its soul leader and he was its voice. Sure some heretics probably grumbled, but any serious attempt to organize that opposition would fail because:

1. Theres a civil war on, any one who tries to oppose the move can just be purged for "hurting anti communist unity".

2. How are they going to get there word out, McArthur controls all the means of communication on his side. Is he going to let you publish an article attacking his pick for president? Are you going to write an article for the Daily Worker saying "I agree with killing the Judeo Bolsheviks, but I just hate the Papists"?

3. The army is the real force running the show, not the NSF or the Congress. The army will follow orders, the civilian right is just so much window dressing.

In general I think this comes from people treating the coup as a fascist movement rather than a military police state with fascist wall paper.
 
The Franco-British War against Horror

The period of Detente in the 60's and 70's may have been a cooling of foreign relations between the FBU and Comintern, but domestically, the Red threat remained very much alive, at least in the mind of the government. Nowhere was this more apparent than in the so-called "Culture Wars." Incidentally, a growing front for the Culture War came from the period of Detente itself. As relations cooled, films from Comintern nations began to trickle down and get popular releases in the FBU. This included a variety of films, from innocuous films like Star Wars, to more objectionable films, like the notoriously violent American horror films. It was these films which were the target of Cold Warriors, particularly in Britain, during the 70's.

American horror films, by the 60's, had largely been divided into 2 categories. There was the respectable arthouse "Sinclairian" horror films, inspired mostly by the Upton Sinclair novel "The Jungle", which highlighted the horrors of capitalism and the exploitation of the workers, and there were the "blood and guts" exploitation horror, ones which focused on less-respectable subjects like monsters or serial killers (the latter genre also had problems with local cinema collectives in the UASR, but that is a topic for another day). Both were, by the standards of Franco-British films, very violent, and quite gruesome. This inspired very similar horror films in allied nations, like the USSR and Italy. In France, Sinclairian horror tended to garner some respect, due to France's own strong avant-garde tradition in film. However, even this respect didn't extend very far. Parisian theaters were regularly raided and fined for possession of "obscene" materials, mostly American and Italian films, with sexuality or graphic violence. However, under the guise of artistic merit, and with the help of French directors like Jean-Luc Goddard, several major horror films were certified and released in France.

Britain was far more thorough in its crusade against "Red corruption and violence." In the late 60's and early 70's, due to cultural restrictions, American films were often screened in Labour or Communist run theaters. As relations normalized, many American films were distributed in British theaters. The cultural differences between the two became very obvious, and many began to protest to the British Film Classification Board over these releases. Leading the charge was famed moral crusader Mary Whitehouse, who merged moral objections to violence with anti-Communism in her sermons. Soon, theaters were regularly raided by police for "moral corruption," and members of parliament often denounced "Red proselytizing". Soon, the Board prevented many films from being distributed, effectively banning them. However, there were avenues to watch violent foreign films. Secret screenings occurred in abandoned houses or tunnels, away from police brutality. The new medium of video tapes also spread many banned films, allowing people to view them in the privacy of their homes. By the late 90's, however, the new detente and the internet softened some of these bans, and many old American horror films are being released in the FBU.
 

E. Burke

Banned
From Thread Franco British Banned Film Kult

My Soviet Delegation hosted a couple Franco British MPs from our sister organization, the Green Socialist Tendency. It was cool to meet comrades from across the pond but what really caught my interest was something one of the older members mentioned in passing, the Banned Film Kult. I didn't find out much but apparently during the crackdown on "red degenerate media" in the 70s and 80s a subculture grew up around these films. It was mostly kids who wanted to watch naughty films, nothing to political. From what I can tell it became something of a movement by the late 80s, with local clubs organized around the country, specialized slang and hand gestures. While it didn't start off political, it seems like an entire generation of Franco British leftists grew up in this Kult.

Honestly, it reminds me of the early gay culture. The use of slang, clothing and other coded behavior to signify membership in a group defined by a taboo activity.

credit to Mr. E
 

bookmark95

Banned
The period of Detente in the 60's and 70's may have been a cooling of foreign relations between the FBU and Comintern, but domestically, the Red threat remained very much alive, at least in the mind of the government. Nowhere was this more apparent than in the so-called "Culture Wars." Incidentally, a growing front for the Culture War came from the period of Detente itself. As relations cooled, films from Comintern nations began to trickle down and get popular releases in the FBU. This included a variety of films, from innocuous films like Star Wars, to more objectionable films, like the notoriously violent American horror films. It was these films which were the target of Cold Warriors, particularly in Britain, during the 70's.

American horror films, by the 60's, had largely been divided into 2 categories. There was the respectable arthouse "Sinclairian" horror films, inspired mostly by the Upton Sinclair novel "The Jungle", which highlighted the horrors of capitalism and the exploitation of the workers, and there were the "blood and guts" exploitation horror, ones which focused on less-respectable subjects like monsters or serial killers (the latter genre also had problems with local cinema collectives in the UASR, but that is a topic for another day). Both were, by the standards of Franco-British films, very violent, and quite gruesome. This inspired very similar horror films in allied nations, like the USSR and Italy. In France, Sinclairian horror tended to garner some respect, due to France's own strong avant-garde tradition in film. However, even this respect didn't extend very far. Parisian theaters were regularly raided and fined for possession of "obscene" materials, mostly American and Italian films, with sexuality or graphic violence. However, under the guise of artistic merit, and with the help of French directors like Jean-Luc Goddard, several major horror films were certified and released in France.

Britain was far more thorough in its crusade against "Red corruption and violence." In the late 60's and early 70's, due to cultural restrictions, American films were often screened in Labour or Communist run theaters. As relations normalized, many American films were distributed in British theaters. The cultural differences between the two became very obvious, and many began to protest to the British Film Classification Board over these releases. Leading the charge was famed moral crusader Mary Whitehouse, who merged moral objections to violence with anti-Communism in her sermons. Soon, theaters were regularly raided by police for "moral corruption," and members of parliament often denounced "Red proselytizing". Soon, the Board prevented many films from being distributed, effectively banning them. However, there were avenues to watch violent foreign films. Secret screenings occurred in abandoned houses or tunnels, away from police brutality. The new medium of video tapes also spread many banned films, allowing people to view them in the privacy of their homes. By the late 90's, however, the new detente and the internet softened some of these bans, and many old American horror films are being released in the FBU.

Is there a precedent in OTL for this kind of censorship in a Western nation?
 
Is there a precedent in OTL for this kind of censorship in a Western nation?

The whole idea for that came from this:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_nasty

Basically, a list of films that were refused certification by the British Board of Film Classification, and were largely criticized for their content. I noticed that most of the movies on the list (excluding classics like Last House on the Left and the Thing) are b-grade, very violent horror films, some from Italy. I thought that, with lax censorship rules in the UASR, there would be a lot more violence in American films, making them very similar to those Italian films. Combining that with the anti-Communism of the FBU, and I realized that imported horror films could cause quite a stir.
 

bookmark95

Banned
The whole idea for that came from this:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_nasty

Basically, a list of films that were refused certification by the British Board of Film Classification, and were largely criticized for their content. I noticed that most of the movies on the list (excluding classics like Last House on the Left and the Thing) are b-grade, very violent horror films, some from Italy. I thought that, with lax censorship rules in the UASR, there would be a lot more violence in American films, making them very similar to those Italian films. Combining that with the anti-Communism of the FBU, and I realized that imported horror films could cause quite a stir.

Well, Cannibal Holocaust and those other Italian exploitation films were said to have a lot of anti-imperialist themes, and the film was so insane, that Italian authorities thought the filmmakers had actually killed people.

But an industry full of "Cannibal Holocaust"-blood fests. :eek: I can understand the censorship.

I can see the censorship.
 
I remember someone earlier suggesting that the Eldar in the Reds version of Warhammer 40K were a subtle critique of Communism run amok. I wonder if American horror films may have been an influence on the Dark Eldar ITTL?
 
I remember someone earlier suggesting that the Eldar in the Reds version of Warhammer 40K were a subtle critique of Communism run amok. I wonder if American horror films may have been an influence on the Dark Eldar ITTL?

The Dark Eldar are essentially extreme objectivists or other anarchists with a social darwinistic ethos. The only rule is "the person strong enough to get to the top of the pile gets to make the rules", the disadvantaged are not helped at all, compassion and altruism are actively scorned (the Dark Eldar have suppressed their recollection of romance and familial love so strongly an Archon needed a human woman whom he just killed the husband of to explain it to him during his quest to try and impress a female archon; then he only realized what love actually meant when in his attempt to steal a Necron Lord's prized jewel; his ever faithful daughter was killed in action), and everyone looks out for number one.
 
From Thread Franco British Banned Film Kult



TotalBrit said:
Those were before my time. My brother used to go to them, though. He worked as a projectionist at a ESCI theater in the early 90's, so he watched a lot of porn and horror that was banned. He said one of his proudest achievements as a commie activist was not getting caught. When the bans were softened, he introduced me to a lot of my favorites, when they came out on VHS.
He recalled one Ukrainian zombie film that was particularly terrifying. It was about a few teenagers trapped in a town infected by a zombie plague. It was a film from late 70's, and the Soviet distributor never re-released because people fainted in the theater, so he never was able to get a copy. I can’t remember the name, though. Maybe one of the Soviet users could help me

TheThirdMan said:
I think the movie is Hell Monsters from the Countryside . It was released on VHS here, but for a short period, and I think its pulling had more to do with the director leaving the collective that originally produced and released it. I know, because my dad had a copy, and I watched it with him. It wasn't that scary, honestly, but my dad said that when he saw it in the theater, people were quite shocked by it.
It might still be here somewhere. If you want, I could upload and send it to you

TotalBrit said:
That would be lovely. Just PM me the link. I might also send it to my brother.
 
Would sitcoms such as Friends and Seinfield develop TTL?

I am also intrested about what would happen to HIMYM. Would it have a different ending?

On the video game front, does Bioware still exist? What about Bilzzard?
 
Last edited:
Seinfeld, I could see being made, mostly in the same form. Friends and HIMYM, perhaps not, due to different cultural mores.
 
So, I was in Greece on vacation, and while I'm here at the Newark Airport Mariott, waiting for my flight home, I decided to write a brief sequel to my previous post:

American Horror

In some sense, Marxist criticism of the horror genre can be traced back to the works of German expatriate Dr. Fredric Wertham on horror comics[1]. Wertham had written several articles in the late 40's and early 50's about the dangerous influence of horror comics, particularly the ones done by R&B Comics. His criticism of the "anti-social" nature of these horror books (in particular, how they seem to show people not being accountable for their actions and the prevalence of murder) were echoed in later battles over horror films (some of which were influenced by R&B comics). However, with freedom of speech laws enforced greatly in the UASR, this ultimately didn't amount to much, with bans and regulation proven unconstitutional, and horror comics being impeded and Wertham himself would distance himself from this research, when the discussion began to border on outright censorship. (Indeed, it was calling attention to Wertham's often questionable research methods)

There was no official government censorship of films, as enshrined in the Declarations of the Rights of Persons, Toilers,etc. However, filmmakers and the cinema collectivization system would clash over the depiction of severe violence. Often, approval depended on cutting several minutes of footage, mostly severe violence or moments depicting societal corruption. Often, this was targeted towards the "exploitation" side of the American horror spectrum. There was a double standard in the depiction of violence, as many "Sinclairain horror" films, which were more arthouse and avant-garde in tone, were often approved and even given preferential treatment. For instance, the 1972 film "The Village", set in a generic unnamed late 19th century village, as the peasants are slowly degraded, and eventually resort to cannibalism by the masters of capitals, with very graphic depictions of sexual depravity and people killing and consuming their fellow man for most of the film, was approved fairly quickly, and was even distributed to international film festivals. In contrast, the 1968 film "Night of the Living Dead", which had a single scene of zombies consuming human flesh, and was otherwise tamer than the former film, was the subject of a massive conflict between the WFPL and George Romero, over supposed "intense violence" and "anti-social elements" (supposedly, the fact the zombie apocalypse hadn't been subdued by the end undermined confidence in the militia system). Ultimately, Romero won out, and Night was released uncut, but the incident highlighted the somewhat interesting relationship the WFPL had with horror.

One particularly taboo topic was serial killers. Unlike the USSR, the heavily decentralized UASR acknowledged the existence of serial killers in a communist society, but claimed that they were a rarity, and that potential serial killers were encouraged more under capitalism, with socialism alleviating systemic mental illness. This attitude was reflected in the cinema collectives. When Charles Pierce tried to create a film about the real life series of murders that occurred in rural Georgia in the late 40's,[2] he found opposition not only from the town that suffered through the murders, but also the cinema collectives, who felt that the depiction of the killer as a highly influential member of a local steel workers union (which was a fact of the story), would undermine the impression that serial killers were "anti-social loners", who weren't productive members of society, and were remnants of the capitalist system. The film ended up never getting made. John Carpenter had some problems making Halloween, due to the fact the main killer in the story was released due to bureaucratic errors in the asylum he was being held, after he had murdered his family. Again, it was considered to undermine socialist rehabilitation, and the idea that killers could be produced in such climates. However, this time, he succeeded, and the WFPL had no major objections to the film.

After the period of the Second Cultural Revolution, this attitude slowly diminished. In modern times, the gap between Sinclairian horror and exploitation horror is being bridged. Indeed, many modern films have significant elements from both thoughts, and are being made from filmmakers who were influenced by both.

[1] And before you criticize me for having him be in the UASR instead of Cuba, he was actually very liberal (and also, as a Jew, he would probably not like the openly anti-Semitic MacArthurist regime much) , contrary to sources who say he was a McCarthyist. In fact, his clinic in Harlem (where most of the research for Seduction of the Innocent was done) was named for Paul Lafargue, Karl Marx's son-in-law. Although, here, he is less influential.
[2] I'll presume that most of the OTL major serial killers (including the one that inspired The Town That Feared Sundown) are butterflied away, but there are probably other such murders to replace them.
 

bookmark95

Banned
So, I was in Greece on vacation, and while I'm here at the Newark Airport Mariott, waiting for my flight home, I decided to write a brief sequel to my previous post:

American Horror

In some sense, Marxist criticism of the horror genre can be traced back to the works of German expatriate Dr. Fredric Wertham on horror comics[1]. Wertham had written several articles in the late 40's and early 50's about the dangerous influence of horror comics, particularly the ones done by R&B Comics. His criticism of the "anti-social" nature of these horror books (in particular, how they seem to show people not being accountable for their actions and the prevalence of murder) were echoed in later battles over horror films (some of which were influenced by R&B comics). However, with freedom of speech laws enforced greatly in the UASR, this ultimately didn't amount to much, with bans and regulation proven unconstitutional, and horror comics being impeded and Wertham himself would distance himself from this research, when the discussion began to border on outright censorship. (Indeed, it was calling attention to Wertham's often questionable research methods)

There was no official government censorship of films, as enshrined in the Declarations of the Rights of Persons, Toilers,etc. However, filmmakers and the cinema collectivization system would clash over the depiction of severe violence. Often, approval depended on cutting several minutes of footage, mostly severe violence or moments depicting societal corruption. Often, this was targeted towards the "exploitation" side of the American horror spectrum. There was a double standard in the depiction of violence, as many "Sinclairain horror" films, which were more arthouse and avant-garde in tone, were often approved and even given preferential treatment. For instance, the 1972 film "The Village", set in a generic unnamed late 19th century village, as the peasants are slowly degraded, and eventually resort to cannibalism by the masters of capitals, with very graphic depictions of sexual depravity and people killing and consuming their fellow man for most of the film, was approved fairly quickly, and was even distributed to international film festivals. In contrast, the 1968 film "Night of the Living Dead", which had a single scene of zombies consuming human flesh, and was otherwise tamer than the former film, was the subject of a massive conflict between the WFPL and George Romero, over supposed "intense violence" and "anti-social elements" (supposedly, the fact the zombie apocalypse hadn't been subdued by the end undermined confidence in the militia system). Ultimately, Romero won out, and Night was released uncut, but the incident highlighted the somewhat interesting relationship the WFPL had with horror.

One particularly taboo topic was serial killers. Unlike the USSR, the heavily decentralized UASR acknowledged the existence of serial killers in a communist society, but claimed that they were a rarity, and that potential serial killers were encouraged more under capitalism, with socialism alleviating systemic mental illness. This attitude was reflected in the cinema collectives. When Charles Pierce tried to create a film about the real life series of murders that occurred in rural Georgia in the late 40's,[2] he found opposition not only from the town that suffered through the murders, but also the cinema collectives, who felt that the depiction of the killer as a highly influential member of a local steel workers union (which was a fact of the story), would undermine the impression that serial killers were "anti-social loners", who weren't productive members of society, and were remnants of the capitalist system. The film ended up never getting made. John Carpenter had some problems making Halloween, due to the fact the main killer in the story was released due to bureaucratic errors in the asylum he was being held, after he had murdered his family. Again, it was considered to undermine socialist rehabilitation, and the idea that killers could be produced in such climates. However, this time, he succeeded, and the WFPL had no major objections to the film.

After the period of the Second Cultural Revolution, this attitude slowly diminished. In modern times, the gap between Sinclairian horror and exploitation horror is being bridged. Indeed, many modern films have significant elements from both thoughts, and are being made from filmmakers who were influenced by both.

[1] And before you criticize me for having him be in the UASR instead of Cuba, he was actually very liberal (and also, as a Jew, he would probably not like the openly anti-Semitic MacArthurist regime much) , contrary to sources who say he was a McCarthyist. In fact, his clinic in Harlem (where most of the research for Seduction of the Innocent was done) was named for Paul Lafargue, Karl Marx's son-in-law. Although, here, he is less influential.
[2] I'll presume that most of the OTL major serial killers (including the one that inspired The Town That Feared Sundown) are butterflied away, but there are probably other such murders to replace them.

So by the present day ITTL, you can find "Cannibal Holocaust"-style scenes in mainstream horror films? o_O

In any society, no matter how much welfare your provide, there are going to be some maniacs who will cause horrors. Norway has possibly the best penal system in the world, and even they had to contend with a mass shooter like Breivik. :mad:
 

bookmark95

Banned
I wonder how UASR spies and intelligence agents are portrayed in fiction. I bet you'll here lines like this:

"And another thing, smack talk has no effect on those stronger than you. You and your men have the power to bring men and whole companies to your heels, but we have the power to bring entire nations to our heels, if not to ruin." Eda-Black Lagoon.

I think many dictatorial, reactionary regimes, sometimes propped up by the FBU, receive this response whenever they call Socialists Americans ,"soft and effete."
 
One thing to consider with TTL's version of movies like The Town That Dreaded Sundown and Halloween is whether Hitchcock's Psycho is still made or if it's butterflied away. I don't know anything about his politics, but is seems possible that, given the Civil War, the Red Terror, and the Outbreak of WW2, he may not go to Hollywood when he did in OTL. If he decides to stay in Britain in the late 30s and remains in the FBU during the Cold War, Hitchcock directing the film adaption of Bloch's book may not happen.
 
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