Fair enough. I do these in between classes (my dorm is close to the buildings where I take classes). I'll probably have it up by tomorrow.
Reds fanfic
- Thread starter E. Burke
- Start date
Fair enough. I do these in between classes (my dorm is close to the buildings where I take classes). I'll probably have it up by tomorrow.
Well obviously the authoritarianism isn't going to last forever, and it will liberalise and democratise in time, although I can see the political dictatorship lasting until the mid 70s. And even them it's probably not going to reach literal Stalin levels of horribleness. But I do think that the sociocultural effects of the post-war government are going to last long beyond democratisation.
Remember IOTL the US sought to disestablish the more overt feudal aspects of Japanese society, but were willing to allow the more superficial elements, like the monarchy, to continue. ITTL the occupation and government is going to try and utterly eradicate both the feudal and the bourgeois elements of Japanese society and will seek to reshape Japan to a far greater degree than IOTL. This is both going to mean a fundamentally different (and in many ways better) Japan, but will also likely face more resistance and require much more violence to achieve as the Communists will be pitted against deeply entrenched class interests. Think the establishment of the Soviet Union sweeping away the feudal and bourgeois order, but entirely imposed from the top down by an invading army.
Add to this the fact that, whilst it did exist, and would probably be a little more successful ITTL due to the American Revolution, the revolutionary left in Japan was always a minority and therefore the post-war government isn't going to have a lot of initial support, and its authoritarianism is likely to alienate the not insignificant number of anarchists in there (Anarcho-Syndicalism was initially the dominant tendency in the Japanese left, but started to decline in the mid 20s, although the success of the American Revolution would probably have given them a new lease on life), as well as liberals in the wider population.
Whilst I do think that the USAR will try an put pressure on Japan to open up, I think there are going to be two main factors that will limit them. The first is geopolitical. So long as the USSR and USAR are at odds with each other the Japanese government can threaten to switch sides if they feel that the USAR is encroaching on their affairs.
The second is due to the fact that there is probably a well-founded fear that if free and fair elections were held in Japan counter-revolutionaries might get into power, and if they align with the FBU then there will suddenly be this huge unsinkable FBU aircraft carrier moored off the coast of East Asia. Whilst the situation in Japan won't be ideal and many will want to see it changed, I can see the USAR putting up with it on pragmatic grounds (it's not like superpowers IOTL aren't often willing to sacrifice ideals for pragmatism in foreign affairs). There may even be some attempt to justify Japanese authoritarianism on ideological grounds, by stating that Japan needs a period of Jacobin rule to ensure that the old order is eliminated and the foundations of socialism can be built.
Once the USSR and USAR reconcile, however, the rising tide of optimism and geopolitical restructuring that occurs is likely to
This is all speculation on my part, but I would also argue that there is a very good case that Japan ITTL will be worse off than Japan IOTL on an economic level. Firstly, the Soviets and Americans, rather than just bombing Japan into submission, launch a full scale invasion of the home islands, which I imagine is going to leave Japan even more damaged than IOTL. Secondly, IOTL the US invested heavily in Japan and South Korea to build them up as bulwarks against Communism. ITTL Japan is surrounded by friendly red states, whilst China is going to be on the front-lines of the Asian revolution. Therefore the lions share of development aid would probably go to China. Thirdly, if Korea and China push for Japan to pay them reparations, which the post-war government would not be in a position to refuse, that's going to put even more strain on Japan's economy. Finally, because of a mixture of political repression and economic stagnation at home, and greater stability and liberty in the wider Comintern, I think that Japan is likely to suffer from mass emigration. At the very least this will cause a brain-drain problem, and at the very worst labour shortages. In order to counter this Japan might try and implement restrictions on emigration, but that going to be both fairly repressive and probably quite unpopular.
For a long time I think Japan is going to be seen as a political embarrassment by the USAR, a propaganda goldmine by the FBU, and a cautionary tale about the dangers of trying to force socialism too quickly by social democrats. I can also see the FBU regarding Japan as a potential weak link in the Comintern and one of the few areas where they might be able to go on the offensive, so MI6 (or whatever the FBU equivalent is) will probably be quite active there.
Or maybe I've just been massively over-thinking this.
While they're is obviously going to be an element of resistance to the New Order in Japan, we shouldn't overestimate it.
The revolutionary transformation is broadly successful because the old imperialists brought the country to ruin. The old way of doing things nearly destroyed the country. The war ends with a foreign power kicking the door in, and overthrowing a government that had been brutalizing its own citizens in a vain attempt to live out their pseudo-bushido fantasies. The Emperor voluntarily* abdicates, and lays the blame for the who the whole disaster befalling the Japanese people on the imperial system.
Post war Japan is not exactly a nice place. There is eventual liberalization, beginning in the mid 50s, but it is a long process. But the bottom line is that the new order takes hold because the country is being rebuilt, the people have decent housing, health care, full bellies, and what feels like meaningful participation in their self-government, first through the JCP party-state, and then through a multi-party system.
They'll get to take advantage of a well-integrated economic sphere in the Pacific rim during their economic recovery. A market they did not have access to historically, Mainland China and the Soviet Union, are open to them. They have a relative development advantage, especially in terms of human capital, over China. They're also the lynch pin for collective security in East Asia, the sentinel that keeps Chinese territorial waters safe from FBU encroachment.
The revolutionary transformation is broadly successful because the old imperialists brought the country to ruin. The old way of doing things nearly destroyed the country. The war ends with a foreign power kicking the door in, and overthrowing a government that had been brutalizing its own citizens in a vain attempt to live out their pseudo-bushido fantasies. The Emperor voluntarily* abdicates, and lays the blame for the who the whole disaster befalling the Japanese people on the imperial system.
Post war Japan is not exactly a nice place. There is eventual liberalization, beginning in the mid 50s, but it is a long process. But the bottom line is that the new order takes hold because the country is being rebuilt, the people have decent housing, health care, full bellies, and what feels like meaningful participation in their self-government, first through the JCP party-state, and then through a multi-party system.
They'll get to take advantage of a well-integrated economic sphere in the Pacific rim during their economic recovery. A market they did not have access to historically, Mainland China and the Soviet Union, are open to them. They have a relative development advantage, especially in terms of human capital, over China. They're also the lynch pin for collective security in East Asia, the sentinel that keeps Chinese territorial waters safe from FBU encroachment.
E. Burke
Banned
What about China?
Also, could we do an elseworlds version of reds? Like take it in directions external to cannon?
Is a Hungarian uprising event in Japan out of the question? Because if so I'm going to have too rewrite a good chunk of what I've already written.
(Also will the Hungarian Uprising still happen ITTL, and if so how will it be different?).
(Also will the Hungarian Uprising still happen ITTL, and if so how will it be different?).
Special thanks to E. Burke for his suggestion on Thor:
Justice League of Avengers
The Justice League of Avengers is a superhero team appearing in Marvel Comic Group Comics. They are a successor and amalgamation of the Golden Age "Justice Society" and the frequent team-ups between Captain America, Namor, and The Human Torch during that same era. In the original incarnations from 1964, the team was founded to combat an invader named "Starro the Conqueror", and later became a team under the sponsership of Nick Fury and SHIELD, who made them a team to support the global revolution. Those members were:
- Captain America: Sam Wilson was a decorated Air Force pilot, nicknamed "Falcon" who had served in Erithea and Indochina. Subsequently, he became part of a new program to create another Captain America, using the same formula, now completely restored using Steve Rogers blood. The experiment is successful, but a French saboteur destroys the lab, once again leaving behind a fragment. Wilson, under the mentorship of the aged Steve Rogers, leads a squad of other Caps to fight the new Red Skull, leading a group of neo-Nazis operating out of Argentina, who are collaborating with the FBU to subvert communism wherever it may arise.
- Wonder Woman: After the war, Wonder Woman continued fighting on behalf of the UASR, and was later approached by Nick Fury to help build the JLA. She grows close to Sam Wilson, who reminds her of Steve Trevor, her former love.
- Green Lantern: Former Revolutionary Air Force Pilot turned galactic patrolman Hal Jordan was the next to join. It was his fighting of "Starro the Conquerer" that brought the team together in the first place.
- Iron Man: Tony Stark, brilliant engineer, was captured while arming Indochinese rebels, and forced to build weapons for a greedy warlord. However, with the help of fellow engineer Yinsen, he builds an Iron suit, and beats the warlord. He takes the idea, and builds an entire army that wears similar suits, called the Iron Man Corps. The Iron Man on the team is a member of this group, sometimes Stark, sometimes Anton Vanko, the head of the Iron Man Corp Soviet branch, sometimes a one off character.
- The Atom: Bruce Banner was a nuclear scientist who was examining the effects of gamma rays. However, when several teenagers come into the testing range, he is forced to sacrifice himself to save them. The rays turn him into a giant red monster, who the government tries to capture and kill repeatedly. However, he manages to retain some of his intellect, and morality. He leaves the team shortly after its founding.
- Ant-Man and Wasp: Ray Palmer and his wife Janet van Dyke were a husband and wife team, who developed a formula to change their sizes, and became the team "Ant-Man and Wasp"
- Doctor Mid-Nite: After the death of the original, Hank Pym, an orinothologist, decided to take up the identity, but use a pair of special glasses to emulate his ability to see in the dark.
- The Flash: Barry Allen is a chemist, who is struck by lightning while near a vat of chemicals, making his very fast. He uses his powers to stop crime.
- Black Panther: African revolutionary T'Challa helped overthrow a corrupt colonial government in Wakanda, and establish a socialist state, which was undersiege from capitalists and imperialists seeking its rare resources. He adopted the identity to help fend off those who would exploit the region. T'Challa receives tactical support from SHIELD to help him protect Wakanda, in exchange for him becoming a SHIELD operative.
-Thor: Resembling the ancient Germanic version of the character (eschewing any Viking connections) Dr. Donald Blake finds a mysterious hammer, and after picking it up, transforms into the god Thor, who battles ancient Norse monsters, as well as aliens. Introduced much later, and became very popular in the neo-Pagan scene of the New Left.
Justice League of Avengers
The Justice League of Avengers is a superhero team appearing in Marvel Comic Group Comics. They are a successor and amalgamation of the Golden Age "Justice Society" and the frequent team-ups between Captain America, Namor, and The Human Torch during that same era. In the original incarnations from 1964, the team was founded to combat an invader named "Starro the Conqueror", and later became a team under the sponsership of Nick Fury and SHIELD, who made them a team to support the global revolution. Those members were:
- Captain America: Sam Wilson was a decorated Air Force pilot, nicknamed "Falcon" who had served in Erithea and Indochina. Subsequently, he became part of a new program to create another Captain America, using the same formula, now completely restored using Steve Rogers blood. The experiment is successful, but a French saboteur destroys the lab, once again leaving behind a fragment. Wilson, under the mentorship of the aged Steve Rogers, leads a squad of other Caps to fight the new Red Skull, leading a group of neo-Nazis operating out of Argentina, who are collaborating with the FBU to subvert communism wherever it may arise.
- Wonder Woman: After the war, Wonder Woman continued fighting on behalf of the UASR, and was later approached by Nick Fury to help build the JLA. She grows close to Sam Wilson, who reminds her of Steve Trevor, her former love.
- Green Lantern: Former Revolutionary Air Force Pilot turned galactic patrolman Hal Jordan was the next to join. It was his fighting of "Starro the Conquerer" that brought the team together in the first place.
- Iron Man: Tony Stark, brilliant engineer, was captured while arming Indochinese rebels, and forced to build weapons for a greedy warlord. However, with the help of fellow engineer Yinsen, he builds an Iron suit, and beats the warlord. He takes the idea, and builds an entire army that wears similar suits, called the Iron Man Corps. The Iron Man on the team is a member of this group, sometimes Stark, sometimes Anton Vanko, the head of the Iron Man Corp Soviet branch, sometimes a one off character.
- The Atom: Bruce Banner was a nuclear scientist who was examining the effects of gamma rays. However, when several teenagers come into the testing range, he is forced to sacrifice himself to save them. The rays turn him into a giant red monster, who the government tries to capture and kill repeatedly. However, he manages to retain some of his intellect, and morality. He leaves the team shortly after its founding.
- Ant-Man and Wasp: Ray Palmer and his wife Janet van Dyke were a husband and wife team, who developed a formula to change their sizes, and became the team "Ant-Man and Wasp"
- Doctor Mid-Nite: After the death of the original, Hank Pym, an orinothologist, decided to take up the identity, but use a pair of special glasses to emulate his ability to see in the dark.
- The Flash: Barry Allen is a chemist, who is struck by lightning while near a vat of chemicals, making his very fast. He uses his powers to stop crime.
- Black Panther: African revolutionary T'Challa helped overthrow a corrupt colonial government in Wakanda, and establish a socialist state, which was undersiege from capitalists and imperialists seeking its rare resources. He adopted the identity to help fend off those who would exploit the region. T'Challa receives tactical support from SHIELD to help him protect Wakanda, in exchange for him becoming a SHIELD operative.
-Thor: Resembling the ancient Germanic version of the character (eschewing any Viking connections) Dr. Donald Blake finds a mysterious hammer, and after picking it up, transforms into the god Thor, who battles ancient Norse monsters, as well as aliens. Introduced much later, and became very popular in the neo-Pagan scene of the New Left.
I have a feeling that Samurai films might be out of vogue for a while, or at least any that portray them, and certainly anything to do with Bushido, in a remotely positive light. It may even butterfly away the impact of ninjas in Japanese and American/Western culture. There would probably also be a de-emphasising of Buddhist and Shinto themes and motifs, as I imagine the post-war government would try very hard to disestablish, if not outright eliminate the influence of those religions, given how integral they were to Imperial ideology. There's also the factor of whether and to what extent the Japanese state employs censorship.
Another thing to consider might be the impact of foreign cultures on Japanese culture in the post-war political climate. I imagine that British and French culture would have less of an impact, given that they're now on opposite sides of the Iron Curtain, whilst the surrounding Comintern countries are likely to have more of an impact. We may have a situation where Russian and Chinese culture, and maybe even Korean and Mexican culture, is as influential in post-war Japan as OTL American culture was. This is likely to have quite an impact on post-war Japanese cinema, as well as popular culture as a whole.
By extension, and at the risk of going off on a tangent, I imagine that French and British culture would be very different ITTL. Alan Moore was brought up earlier in this thread, and it was stated that he still writes Watchmen ITTL, but in my opinion I think it would be very different than OTL Watchmen.
Whilst American comics would be present, I don't see them being quite as hegemonic in the popular culture, and there would probably be a very strong efforts to build up the French and British comics industries. Another factor to consider is that IOTL the British and Franco-Belgian comic traditions are very distinct, with their own styles, traditions, and tropes. Given how closely France and Britain are tied politically, economically and culturally ITTL, we might end up seeing a synthesis between the two traditions.
I think it would make sense for Watchmen ITTL to be set in the FBU, rather than America, and it would be a deconstruction of ATL Franco-British comic tropes and conventions, rather than OTL American Superhero tropes and conventions. Either a lot of the things that would normally be played for dark comedy (read practically anything published by 2000AD if you don't know what I'm talking about) would be played strait, or alternatively it might be a dark comedy poking fun and drawing attention to the underlying racist and reactionary elements in the FBU comic industry (for some reason I think that the ATL Comedian would be a really dark parody of Tintin, with plenty of oblique references to Tintin in the Congo). Finally it would probably be a lot more partisan about the Cold War, given ATL Moore's Communist sympathies, clearly stating that the FBU is the problem, rather than the usual pox-on-both-their-houses approach OTL Moore took with regards to the US and Soviet Union.
Also:
Bit of a nitpick, but if he's based more on the Germanic rather than the Norse/Viking view, wouldn't he be called Donar?
I wouldn't think Samurai films would go out of vogue. You're right, the Bushido/Imperialist parts of the culture would probably be discouraged, but perhaps a more politically correct version of the samurai culture, where they serve as protectors of the noble peasants against the greedy warlords and emperors, who oppress them. The Seven Samurai could work very well in this context. Not historically accurate by any means, but serves the needs of the government in power quite nicely. A dramatization of the Boshin War would also look good. Perhaps modify it as the story of proletariat samurai fighting against an Imperialist regime that wants to destroy them, but later appropriates their culture for its own benefit. The government would want to do this, rewriting history, as ensure some sort of foothold with a more traditional portion of the population. Despite this, I think men like Kurosawa would probably stick to more modern locales, just to stay on the safe side of the government. Kaiju film would probably work as well ITTL as OTL, except the people collective have to destroy the monster at the end. A lot of the hidden criticism of atomic culture in Kaiju films would likely escape censors, because generally, Kaiju films are very fanciful and whimsical. I'd imagine Godzilla would be the creation of a Franco-British or Soviet bomb rather than an American one.
Interesting you bring up Watchmen. I wanted to add on to that TTL interview with Moore briefly about the Charlton heroes that inspired Watchmen. Particularly, I wanted to focus on Rorshach, Mr. A, and the latter's creator, Steve Ditko. Spoiler for that (if I ever write it), I imagined that Rorshach is not a uber-right wing vigilante, but is more heavily influenced by Eastern philosophy. I feel his ideas of "black-white, no grey" fits well with the Chinese concept of yin and yang. Plus, Peter Cross, Thunderbolt (Ozymandias' influence) had those kinds of ideas. It could potentially work in an FBU setting, particularly a counter-culture reference.
The reason I added that, was because E. Burke pointed out to me that Viking Thor would likely bring Nazi connotations, and the more traditional version would be preferred. I suspect he'd still be called Thor, since "Donar" is not as well known.
Remember Blue Alert?
I ended up making a version for it for Red Alert 3 Paradox and it's following fan made expansion thought experiments (echoes and quantum)
http://quantum.creativereactor.ru/index.php?title=Main_Page
Why? Because I have absolutely nothing better to do with my life when I'm bored at school.
Scroll down to the bottom.
Yeah, I'm that kind of person.
Making a deeply, deeply silly alternate history from the perspective of people in reds that is patterned off the deeply, deeply silly world of Red Alert 3 Paradox.
How silly is it?
Well, Emo Hipster Nanites are a thing in the sixties and the targeting systems for killsats are finalized with slide ruler and pen and paper calculations.
I ended up making a version for it for Red Alert 3 Paradox and it's following fan made expansion thought experiments (echoes and quantum)
http://quantum.creativereactor.ru/index.php?title=Main_Page
Why? Because I have absolutely nothing better to do with my life when I'm bored at school.
Scroll down to the bottom.
Yeah, I'm that kind of person.
Making a deeply, deeply silly alternate history from the perspective of people in reds that is patterned off the deeply, deeply silly world of Red Alert 3 Paradox.
How silly is it?
Well, Emo Hipster Nanites are a thing in the sixties and the targeting systems for killsats are finalized with slide ruler and pen and paper calculations.
Last edited:
I'm still kind of sceptical. It would be like Soviet cinema making a film about a band of noble Cossacks protecting the peasants and oppressed nations of Russia from the aristocracy. Yes I know there were red cossacks, but that isn't what they are generally remembered for. Alternatively, it would be like the USAR making a film set during the second civil war, where the heroes were all members of the KKK.
The only way I can see samurai getting any depictions that aren't just stock villains would be in Jidaigeki set in the appropriate time period, which are likely to be very critical of the era, or in works that deconstruct the Samurai myth and image. To a certain extent Kurosawa touched on this in Throne of Blood, an adaptation of Macbeth where he plays with the idea that the Samurai class system leads to an unbreakable cycle of violence and murder (there's a pretty decent review of it here).
Godzilla's probably going to be even more dominant in Japanese cinema as I mentioned earlier in the main thread; as he's generally a symbol of Japan's rather complex relationship with America as well as an emblem of either what Japan is fearing at the time; or a means of punching the crap out of what Japan is fearing at the time. Gamera might not exist since he mostly existed to cash in on the Kaiju craze though; though you could argue that since he was born out of the space race rather than the atomic arms race; he might still have a place to grow out of. Still, he's probably going to continue to play second fiddle to Godzilla.
Fair enough. Maybe Ronin samurais could fit the hero mold better, given they aren't beholden to feudal lords. The Seven Samurai (which is confirmed to have existed ITTL, because the Magnificent Seven was mentioned at one point) was about Ronin Samurai protecting peasants from thieves.So, perhaps those are the only Samurai allowed on film.
The eagle is an animal strongly associated with imperialism and the raven is one strongly associated with the Native American tribes.
Why not a Turkey? I believe that was Ben Franklin's preference for national bird.
He only suggested the Turkey to show that he hated the idea of the Bald Eagle being the national so much he'd rather have the most undignified bird in North America be the symbol.
Besides, Ravens look cool, although if you add blood to them they become wretched thie-I mean receivers of gifts.
Take a look at my name
Just kidding. IIRC, there was a post a while back (maybe in Red Dawn) discussing how the eagle, like The_Red_Star_Rising said, is associated with imperialism, and the Raven is a more intelligent and communal bird. Also, it's black, for anarchism.
I considered putting a hammer and sickle in its claws, like the Austrian coat of arms, but I couldn't find good images of them separately.