Reds fanfic

From AH.com Discussion "Batman V. Superman discussion"

Kalki said:
My god, the trailer is dark. Seriously, there's no color anywhere! I know Zac Snyder wanted to harken back to the Siegel-Shuster/"social realist" version of the character, but those stories were also very colorful and lively. This is just dark and depressing. I know some fans aren't overly fond of the Weisinger era Superman, but that was the iconic version of the character, the one that helped define the character. When you take that away, and you try to put some overly dark, depressing "realist" elements in there, well, I can't honestly say that the film will be in the spirit of Superman. And if he is going to fight Batman, he needs a different aesthetic to contrast with Batman.

NestorMakhno said:
I don't read comics. What does "Weisinger era" mean?


Kalki said:
Sorry, Mort Weisinger was an editor at ADC, who took over Superman in the late 50's, at the beginning of the Silver Age of Comics. He essentially created the modern version of the character. You know, the rainbow Kryptonites, Brainiac (and most of his rogues gallery), Super Girl, and Krypto the Super Dog. He took advantage of the revolution against strict rationalist thought in comics during the Silver Age, and created a more whimsical version of the character. And that version was very successful. I prefer that version over the Siegel-Shuster one. Perhaps, as a Brit, I don't have sympathy for the politics in those 30's books, but the Superman of the Silver Age simply had more fun, especially since they weren't limited by that dreary tendency in Yank fiction called "Social Realism." that pervaded the early books.

GreenAvenger said:
Look, I know over there, you think that Socialist Realism was some rule, that requires communist proselytizing and the suppression of fantasy, but if you look at those stories, there is a sense of optimism and hope, the way that ordinary people stand alongside Superman, and fight against the evils of world. Hell, the Weisinger Superman was more socialist leaning than the original. You know, "Superman, Cappie Smasher" . Yeah, they weren't rationalist, but they still were heavily socialist in message. In fact, they were more communist in tone. Alan Moore said it best when he said "Weisinger took the concepts of Siegel and Shuster, and took them to their logical extreme, turning a 'Super-socialist; to the greatest Communist hero."
That said, yes, this trailer is way too dark. Superman stories, no matter the person writing, was still bright and colorful. It's hard to reconcile this with Superman, even with the presence of Batman. Hell, speaking of Moore, Snyder's "Watchmen" had more color and brightness to it, and it was far darker than Superman (though, ironically, that story was very Silver Age in aesthetic, if not tone.)
 
The more things changed in comic book movies the more they stay the same it seems.:p

I'm just hoping ITTL we get an equilvient of the Marvel cinematic universe but including ALL superheroes since I remember in an earlier post Jello stated that comic books would either just stay in independent storylines or they would collence into one awesome universe that they all live in and since in this Superman and Batman are interacting...
 

E. Burke

Banned
The more things changed in comic book movies the more they stay the same it seems.:p

I'm just hoping ITTL we get an equilvient of the Marvel cinematic universe but including ALL superheroes since I remember in an earlier post Jello stated that comic books would either just stay in independent storylines or they would collence into one awesome universe that they all live in and since in this Superman and Batman are interacting...

this isn't necessarily cannon though if someone wanted to incorporate elements of it into the updates I wouldn't complain
 
Après L’Empire is a French non-fiction book of anonymous origins predicting the collapse of the Franco-British Union, using as basis it's unfair system of neo-colonialism, inefficient economic model and being increasingly surrounded by communist democracies among other causes.
Predictions
The book uses various arguments to predict the collapse of the Entende Cordial such as:
Inefficient economic model: the book harshly criticizes the economic model as messianic and flawed, being based on the idea that humans are inherently charitable species. It is divided into three sections:
Quality of life sustained by Credit: FBU’s domination centers itself in a strong credit system, bestowing the population a high quality of life through low interest credit, which is used to justify the miserable wages of factory and mining Indian workers that are the lifeblood of the Union’s industrial capacity. Other programs, like the Imperial Health Service and the Imperial Vacation Program are instead sustained by private loans with acceptable interest rates, paid for by the government’s continuous printing of Imperials.
Unstoppable Inflation: This system, extant for fifty years, could have endured if only implemented throughout the FBU or the WEU but it will strain itself when it was expanded in the mid sixties to India. Indeed the system basis itself on the fact that the FBU’s government is the holder of its citizens’ credit, sustained by high taxes on private businesses, except that those private businesses have developed an increasingly high debt which, added to the inflation, has more than tripled prices and forcing the population to indebt itself forcing the central government to further print more money.
Military budget: the government is also forced to spend huge amounts of cash into vanity space and naval projects, with the goal of power projection. While the FBU possess the second largest navy in the world, half is placed in the Indian Ocean and manned by Indian citizens while the rest split unevenly across Western Europe.

Communist encirclement: The so called Red Shift caused a power shift away from the UASR and towards the Soviet Union, Brazilian Federation and Republic of Chinese Soviets, as these countries started to explore their vast natural resources into an industrial capacity. That event weakened UASR’s historic position as a provider of goods for communist democracies, especially isolated ones like Free Italy. These three nations have become the largest backers of the International Development Fund, as the UASR’s moves away from consumerism and towards sustained development. [1]

Another factor is the discrediting of the FBU as a legitimate global power. While its power projection might give a different view, nuclear weapons are the sole reason of its continued existence. Should the universal laws change as to render nuclear weapons non-functional, the collective might of America, Russia, Brazil and China would curb-stomp the last vestige of capitalism.

[1] the Red Shift is non-canon but it's based on the idea that a democratic Soviet Union and China would seek to invest on the quality of life of their citizens, at the expense of the environment much like OTL third world nations do, except for the invest on the quality of life of their citizens portion.
 
Interesting. Did you take any inspiration from the fall of the Soviet Union?

Actually it's inspired by an OTL book of the same name. Après L'Empire is french for "After the Empire" and outlines various inherent weaknesses in American imperialism. The fictional book I wrote shares much with the OTL one in spirit but not in substance, as the FBU is not the globally dominant force like the USA is in our world.
 

E. Burke

Banned
a question for American board members

I recently read Mcolsky's Dissent and Consent: a Study in Regime Change and Maintenance and in it he lays out a interesting description of the three forms of dissent:

1. Rejection of Premise: this is the classic form, a complete rejection of the regime/societies basic tenents and advocacy for a new foundation. The most obvious example is Bolshevism. It rejects all of capitalist societies precepts.

2. Love of Premise: the idea that the regime/societies premises are sound, but that some aspect of the society is failing to meet those ideals. This form struggles to make the society more true to itself. A classic example is the second cultural revolution, which was largely driven by a belief that America needed to be more socialist.

3. Creation of Premise: This form generally holds that the premise is at least mostly sound, but that the regime/society isn't meeting it at all. This is rare, but Christian restorationists might count. These guys hold that the Church has rejected true Christianity and needs to be brought back to the light.

My question is, does America have any dissent type 3s? Like are there people who hold that America isn't socialist at all?
 
a question for American board members[/QUOTE]

NestorMakhno said:
I can think of several groups historically that are in that type three. One I could name is the the faction of the CLP led by Gus Hall(1) in the 50's, who wanted the UASR to follow a more Soviet model of communism, and implied that American libertarian socialism was not true socialism. He was one of the more aggressive members of the Congress of Soviets during that time, and he represented the very far left of American politics for many years after. There are several other far left groups that arose in the 60's and 70's that said that the Second Cultural Revolution corrupted the American form of socialism, and the UASR had strayed from its pure original form.

(1) I couldn't find anything on Hall, and nobody ever mentions him in relation to this TL.
 
Après L’Empire is a French non-fiction book of anonymous origins predicting the collapse of the Franco-British Union, using as basis it's unfair system of neo-colonialism, inefficient economic model and being increasingly surrounded by communist democracies among other causes.
Predictions
The book uses various arguments to predict the collapse of the Entende Cordial such as:
Inefficient economic model: the book harshly criticizes the economic model as messianic and flawed, being based on the idea that humans are inherently charitable species. It is divided into three sections:
Quality of life sustained by Credit: FBU’s domination centers itself in a strong credit system, bestowing the population a high quality of life through low interest credit, which is used to justify the miserable wages of factory and mining Indian workers that are the lifeblood of the Union’s industrial capacity. Other programs, like the Imperial Health Service and the Imperial Vacation Program are instead sustained by private loans with acceptable interest rates, paid for by the government’s continuous printing of Imperials.
Unstoppable Inflation: This system, extant for fifty years, could have endured if only implemented throughout the FBU or the WEU but it will strain itself when it was expanded in the mid sixties to India. Indeed the system basis itself on the fact that the FBU’s government is the holder of its citizens’ credit, sustained by high taxes on private businesses, except that those private businesses have developed an increasingly high debt which, added to the inflation, has more than tripled prices and forcing the population to indebt itself forcing the central government to further print more money.
Military budget: the government is also forced to spend huge amounts of cash into vanity space and naval projects, with the goal of power projection. While the FBU possess the second largest navy in the world, half is placed in the Indian Ocean and manned by Indian citizens while the rest split unevenly across Western Europe.

Communist encirclement: The so called Red Shift caused a power shift away from the UASR and towards the Soviet Union, Brazilian Federation and Republic of Chinese Soviets, as these countries started to explore their vast natural resources into an industrial capacity. That event weakened UASR’s historic position as a provider of goods for communist democracies, especially isolated ones like Free Italy. These three nations have become the largest backers of the International Development Fund, as the UASR’s moves away from consumerism and towards sustained development. [1]

Another factor is the discrediting of the FBU as a legitimate global power. While its power projection might give a different view, nuclear weapons are the sole reason of its continued existence. Should the universal laws change as to render nuclear weapons non-functional, the collective might of America, Russia, Brazil and China would curb-stomp the last vestige of capitalism.

[1] the Red Shift is non-canon but it's based on the idea that a democratic Soviet Union and China would seek to invest on the quality of life of their citizens, at the expense of the environment much like OTL third world nations do, except for the invest on the quality of life of their citizens portion.
To my knowledge, there's no indication that Brazil goes communist before the FBU falls.

However, I did write about a Latin Confederation stretching from Mexico to Chile, which while sideskirting the Integralist bloc of World war 2; would still be more than large enough to shift power and influence from the United States once it industrializes.
 
So, I learned that famed mathmatician and skeptic Martin Gardner criticized Upton Sinclair twice in his famous work, Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science for his odd beliefs in Albert Abrams (who supposedly created machines that could cure any disease), and psychic abilities. I want to do something with that, but I don't know what. Any suggestions?
 
To my knowledge, there's no indication that Brazil goes communist before the FBU falls.

However, I did write about a Latin Confederation stretching from Mexico to Chile, which while sideskirting the Integralist bloc of World war 2; would still be more than large enough to shift power and influence from the United States once it industrializes.

Wasn't there a discussion of Brazil being TTL's Vietnam? Because Brazil going red would make the FBU's situation even more desperate. Let's be honest, the Soviet Union's collapse was a shocking surprise for everyone (in spite of what many right-wingers say) because the Soviets appeared to be at the apex of their power. The FBU simply doesn't have the resources, natural or human alike, to even remotely resemble the Soviets. When it falls apart, it would have been a foregone conclusion for anyone who isn't living under a rock.
 
Wasn't there a discussion of Brazil being TTL's Vietnam? Because Brazil going red would make the FBU's situation even more desperate. Let's be honest, the Soviet Union's collapse was a shocking surprise for everyone (in spite of what many right-wingers say) because the Soviets appeared to be at the apex of their power. The FBU simply doesn't have the resources, natural or human alike, to even remotely resemble the Soviets. When it falls apart, it would have been a foregone conclusion for anyone who isn't living under a rock.

Wasn't that an alternate TL, where the UASR intervened in Integralist Brazil, resulting in a long Vietnam style conflict, but not actually canon.
 
Wasn't there a discussion of Brazil being TTL's Vietnam? Because Brazil going red would make the FBU's situation even more desperate. Let's be honest, the Soviet Union's collapse was a shocking surprise for everyone (in spite of what many right-wingers say) because the Soviets appeared to be at the apex of their power. The FBU simply doesn't have the resources, natural or human alike, to even remotely resemble the Soviets. When it falls apart, it would have been a foregone conclusion for anyone who isn't living under a rock.
Western Europe alone is quite the economic power house, add that to vast swathes of Africa, almost all of southern asia, and a big chunk of south America and that's a pretty formidable sphere of influence anyway you cut the mustard.
 
Western Europe alone is quite the economic power house, add that to vast swathes of Africa, almost all of southern asia, and a big chunk of south America and that's a pretty formidable sphere of influence anyway you cut the mustard.

But those territories are not part of either france or britain proper - in the case of Africa they have been militarily coerced into submission. If the alt-WWII spills to much franco-british blood or destroy too much industrial infrastructure, they will have a hard time keeping control of it. Of course Britain can always count on Canada, Australia and NZ to help, but that would cause a power shift away from the FBU which is certainly not the intent.

And regarding South America the FBU has a sadistic choice: aid SA to industrialize itself and thus become an independent powerhouse or not invest and risk the impoverished population to be radicalized by communists.
 
And regarding South America the FBU has a sadistic choice: aid SA to industrialize itself and thus become an independent powerhouse or not invest and risk the impoverished population to be radicalized by communists.

I think SA is lost - the political parties noted the FBU-aligned SA government was in exile.

Even if apartheid SA still stays with the FBU, it knows that it's black majority is a revolution waiting to happen, so they may be wary of going it alone.
 

E. Burke

Banned
Wasn't that an alternate TL, where the UASR intervened in Integralist Brazil, resulting in a long Vietnam style conflict, but not actually canon.

Yea, one of the in universe characters right it. I think it was in the persona dramaticus
 

E. Burke

Banned
I think SA is lost - the political parties noted the FBU-aligned SA government was in exile.

Even if apartheid SA still stays with the FBU, it knows that it's black majority is a revolution waiting to happen, so they may be wary of going it alone.

South America not South Africa
 

E. Burke

Banned
So, I learned that famed mathmatician and skeptic Martin Gardner criticized Upton Sinclair twice in his famous work, Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science for his odd beliefs in Albert Abrams (who supposedly created machines that could cure any disease), and psychic abilities. I want to do something with that, but I don't know what. Any suggestions?

I don't remember when Sinclair died, but you could have him be a writer/fan patron of sciefi and comics. Maybe his support helps them become more mainstream. Like he could, as a major political figure, help them get government grants.
 
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