Red Spies in the White House: An Alternate Cold War

Again, the USSR and France will not like any of this, they will probably crush one (or the two if we're being honest) before Germany and/or Japan get any funny ideas
There's a difference between being right wing and being a fascist military dictatorship. Germany and Japan will probably never again be empires, but they are definitely going to be right wing for a long time. Add on to that once the United States finally realizes what white has done oh boy. Instead of learning about the Holocaust I'm pretty sure we're going to get schools teaching about the German famine.

As for France it's going to find itself more or less surrounded by enemies. Spain is still going to be a junta, Germany will probably forever hate their guts, and I highly doubt England is going to become socialist any time soon.

The United States will probably only keep them around as long as they don't actually go communist, more than likely however I think we're going to see a CIA back to eventually and a military dictatorship take charge.

This world is so fucked.
 
There's a difference between being right wing and being a fascist military dictatorship. Germany and Japan will probably never again be empires, but they are definitely going to be right wing for a long time. Add on to that once the United States finally realizes what white has done oh boy. Instead of learning about the Holocaust I'm pretty sure we're going to get schools teaching about the German famine.

If American teachers are already told to balance Holocaust books with 'opposing' views, then you can be sure that ATL's prominent political groups would be in full denial (or at least they would say that it was a defence against the German famine). And if you end up with pro-Soviet Israel and pro-US Arab states, then the Cold War politics would reinforce that view.
 
damm i just want to see the commie bastards crash and burn and get knocked off thier high horse for once
speak for yourself,i am personaly hoping that white make a law that allows black women to vote,and then win a second term as president,and maybe then the true can maybe come out,that would be interesting and much more devastating

also how is the space race going,it should not be long before the first soviet satelite spotnik is launched,also it would be pretty ironic if this timeline it was the U.S.S.R that invented the internet do´t you think ?
 
I kinda want President White to successfully run as one of the most progressive Presidents in US history, with his closely guarded secrets with the Communist party remaining as secrets until the 21st Century. Of course that line of thought is nothing but a fantasy as the Communist infiltration across the nation will be far too obvious soon.
 
I wonder if, despite the backlash, some of White's policies will popular enough to be retained, like Hitler's animal welfare laws
 

Nephi

Banned
well, the popular front strategy is maintained in the post-war world, frankly the strategy of the Third International was to create democratic and anti-fascist coalitions although they did not rule out that the Popular Front was for some countries "the path to socialism" so in the highly industrialized France may not require a proletarian dictatorship, Stalin would be satisfied with this situation because even if they do not become stalwarts of Moscow they will be close allies

Interesting thought here perhaps a different kind of cold war.

France becomes a true as Marx envisioned it to be Communist state one that develops nuclear weapons quietly.

The USSR is like haha we still have them, France is like Viva La France we do as well, and we are opposed to the ideological views of your dictatorship.
 
I kinda want President White to successfully run as one of the most progressive Presidents in US history, with his closely guarded secrets with the Communist party remaining as secrets until the 21st Century. Of course that line of thought is nothing but a fantasy as the Communist infiltration across the nation will be far too obvious soon.
I guess that could be the alt "good ending" of this story, the "For All Eternity" to this "For All Time"
Like if White cut ties with the communists as soon he entered the White House(rather than keeping serving Stalin) and didnt let his desire for revenge make him go so far as to starve Germany
Thus overshadowing even the Roosevelts as the most popular US president post-Lincoln and when his links were finally revealed everyone would have a good laugh for how "Good ol' Harry" had the commies give him the presidency just to give Stalin his middle finger. A fate that sadly isnt meant to be ITTL
 
Interesting thought here perhaps a different kind of cold war.

France becomes a true as Marx envisioned it to be Communist state one that develops nuclear weapons quietly.

The USSR is like haha we still have them, France is like Viva La France we do as well, and we are opposed to the ideological views of your dictatorship.
I can see a French-Soviet split on ideological and geopolitical grounds similar to the Soviet-Chinese one.
 

marktaha

Banned
There's a difference between being right wing and being a fascist military dictatorship. Germany and Japan will probably never again be empires, but they are definitely going to be right wing for a long time. Add on to that once the United States finally realizes what white has done oh boy. Instead of learning about the Holocaust I'm pretty sure we're going to get schools teaching about the German famine.

As for France it's going to find itself more or less surrounded by enemies. Spain is still going to be a junta, Germany will probably forever hate their guts, and I highly doubt England is going to become socialist any time soon.

The United States will probably only keep them around as long as they don't actually go communist, more than likely however I think we're going to see a CIA back to eventually and a military dictatorship take charge.

This world is so fucked.
Britain elected socialist but anti- Communist government in 1945.
 
Hey, remember when i thought Italy would have gone Communist? Turns out i understimated this timeline's craziness.

Also how long until French Algeria pulls a Rhodesia, delaring itself the legimate continuation of the French republic?
 
Still no word on what's going on in the USSR. And it must be a world of difference from OTL.
With American and international loans flooding into the economy, the course for autarchy is never adopted. And with major Western countries going pink, anti-Western propaganda campaigns and the general course for self-isolation also make no sesne.
 
Still no word on what's going on in the USSR
I would imagine that a "Stay the course" mindset is still prevalent with the Soviet government, now that the USA, Europe, and Asia are all in turmoil and the USSR isn't being economically outpaced to the same scale. Of course nuclear parity or at least more equal arsenals is going to arise, now the America doesn't have nearly as much of a lead in nukes anymore.
 
I don't know if the soviets would allow this to happen, not after WW2
If the Germans tried anything a second time, the Soviets would raze every building in Germany to the ground, and with other world events happening, I don't think too many people outside of Central Europe would care.
 
Just read this whole TL and damn, I'll won't be surprised if this TL turns into an even worse version of GURPS Lenin-1, just swap Wallace with President White.

So there is no Western bloc of the familiar sort in this world's Cold War, so NATO is out of the question. With American isolationism, communists in control of France, and a broken Germany, the Western alliance would never be as powerful as IOTL. Plus there is no European Coal and Steel Community, and that, the future EU. France and Germany will hate each other forever, keeping the enmity alive and kicking probably to the modern day, and with that, no Franco-German reconsolidation and no European Community of any sort. Most likely, there might be a commie version of the Coal and Steel Community though it'll clearly be a Soviet project.

Added onto that, there is no Economic Miracle of the Rhine ITTL and (probably) no Japanese Economic Miracle, which would wake the West even weaker in the face of the (even) mightier Soviet Union. The Greeks and Italians are also guaranteed to be taken over by communist governments. From telling from the chapter on leaking intelligence to the CCP, I'll give the KMT a couple more years until the CCP rules the mainland along with Taiwan. Mind as well include all of Korea, Indochina, and Malaysia too as likely candidates of falling under communist tyranny. With Iran under the Soviet boot, Stalin got his passage straight into the Middle East.
 
If the Germans tried anything a second time, the Soviets would raze every building in Germany to the ground, and with other world events happening, I don't think too many people outside of Central Europe would care.
With the Soviets playing on the anti-Germanism card, I can see more support for the left-wing forces in the countries heavily affected by the German occupation and genocides, making right-wingers even less loud than OTL. Even OTL 1956 waves of protests were socialist in nature, most of them wished to replace one style of socialism with another. West (but not France) would probably cry over intervention as they did not suffer too much under the Germans. France could slip to the Eastern Bloc if the Western Bloc complains too much about "poor Germans".​
 
Things I see just keep heating up for the world.

France seeking a peaceful withdraw from Indochina will be a interesting change.

France going communist is unexpected that said the reaction of nazis is so funny in a pathetic way ''What losing control of their nation for has caused a severe shift forcing them be open to minorities previously unable to run and give their colonial empire concessions? It's the damn JEWS!'' No wonder so many people in the US, Germany and elsewhere will cling to the conspiracy it means they did not wrong have to take no responsibility for their own actions.

I kinda want President White to successfully run as one of the most progressive Presidents in US history, with his closely guarded secrets with the Communist party remaining as secrets until the 21st Century. Of course that line of thought is nothing but a fantasy as the Communist infiltration across the nation will be far too obvious soon.
To be honest while the blowback from White being supported by the USSR will be big I'm not entirely sure unless their was a coup and literal purge through out the entire united states I'm not sure it's possible for the blowback to destroy his legacy.

By that there should be at bare minimum tens of millions of people White's helped give full rights and franchise to Jews, African Americans, Asians, the extremely poor ect the idea that their going to accept this quietly without resistance just cause the source that gave them it is toxic is unlikely. So It either a erosion of rights and far right leaning is a process over time ie they teach the German famine in school and who's behind it White or I suspect it will mean a lot of death will be needed.
 
France could slip to the Eastern Bloc
I don't think France will be too thrilled by the way the Soviets conduct their business and whoever comes after Thorez (who was a Stalinist) will probably be more pink than Red. France will probably pull out of the Eastern Bloc the same way they did NATO in the 60's, and that's if they even join at all. France was fiercely independent and even in this TL they didn't want to give up their colonies, perferring just to make them "part" of France proper.
 
I don't think France will be too thrilled by the way the Soviets conduct their business and whoever comes after Thorez (who was a Stalinist) will probably be more pink than Red. France will probably pull out of the Eastern Bloc the same way they did NATO in the 60's, and that's if they even join at all. France was fiercely independent and even in this TL they didn't want to give up their colonies, perferring just to make them "part" of France proper.
Even if France leaves the Warsaw Pact, they are unliekly to join NATO. WIthout France, NATO is much weaker ITTL.
 
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