Red Army Coup against Stalin, 1941

Anaxagoras

Banned
Was there any chance of a military coup in the Soviet Union during the initial days of the Russo-German War? How might this have unfolded?
 

King Thomas

Banned
It was more or less impossible. Every military, naval, or airforce unit had secret policemen embedded within it. At the higher level, officers had to have their orders signed as well by the NKVD. If it was possible at all, it would be when Stalin had his mental breakdown at the very start of the war.
 
I guess the Germans want to be wiped out by the RN in TTL. There is NO way in hell they can get a decent number of troops in Ireland, assuming they can land any at all.
 
Was there any chance of a military coup in the Soviet Union during the initial days of the Russo-German War? How might this have unfolded?

In a word, not really. The Soviet military leadership of this day was rather apolitical, and those who weren't were Stalin loyalists. Also, the Soviet system was set up to make such things difficult (strong political control of the military generally; this was the nominal function of the Commissars, though they were in practice mostly concerned with other matters, such as the political education of the troops). Ultimately, the military was firmly under Stavka's control, and Stavka was Stalin by extension.
 
In a word, not really. The Soviet military leadership of this day was rather apolitical, and those who weren't were Stalin loyalists. Also, the Soviet system was set up to make such things difficult (strong political control of the military generally; this was the nominal function of the Commissars, though they were in practice mostly concerned with other matters, such as the political education of the troops). Ultimately, the military was firmly under Stavka's control, and Stavka was Stalin by extension.
Not in June. Stavka was founded several weeks into war.

In the first weeks of war, before his speech on 3rd of July, Stalin panicked. He was sulking in his suburban villa - and when a representation of important leaders showed up there, he thought that he was deposed and that they were arriving to arrest him.

He was wrong. They were begging for him to return to Moscow and take leadership. But the fact that he thought it would be so shows it would not have been ASB.

Suppose that someone high up in Kremlin pulls off a coup against Stalin in last days of June.

Who? How? What next?
 
In the first weeks of war, before his speech on 3rd of July, Stalin panicked. He was sulking in his suburban villa - and when a representation of important leaders showed up there, he thought that he was deposed and that they were arriving to arrest him.

He was wrong. They were begging for him to return to Moscow and take leadership. But the fact that he thought it would be so shows it would not have been ASB.

Well, to be fair, Stalin was one of the most paranoid national leaders anywhere ever. I guess that during his illustrious political career he did pretty often consider a number of potential conspiracies that would be quite easily classified as ASB in retrospect...:D
 
A coup against Stalin is possible, but it will be from those party magnates rather than from the Red Army.
 
Was there any chance of a military coup in the Soviet Union during the initial days of the Russo-German War? How might this have unfolded?

There was a coup of sorts but it took place in late 1942 rather than early 1941. In essentials, the leadiing Russian Generals headed by Zhukov went to Stalin and told him that his continual interference in military operations and the destructive effects of his political commisars were costing Russia the war. If things went on like this, Russia was going to lose and if Stalin wanted to carry on the way he had been going, he could do it without them. Stalin folded and agreed to the reforms demanded by the Generals (he never forgave them either).

The details are in Erickson's "The Road To Stalingrad"

Obviously, that was only made possible by the fact that Russia was in a desperate situation. But, a 1942 coup was demonstrably possible, I'd say that a 1941 coup was not.
 
I think the biggest obstacle to these coups is the Stalinist purges of the 30's. However, if we remove those, the Soviet military would have had better commanders, and would've been able to put up a better fight against the Axis.

The other option is that the Soviets get more losses in the first year or are beaten back more quickly. Or that Stalin breaks down/indecisive/goes insane.
 
How about when the delegation arrives to beg him to come back, Stalin panics more than in OTL and decides to go out shooting, and there is an inadvertent coup.
 
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