Rebs defeat at First Manassas

What if Joe Johnston was late arriving, with CSA reinforcments, at First Mannassas. Consequentially Beauregard was left on his own to battle it out with the Union army. Alas for Beauregard, numbers win the day, & he is defeated.

So what does the CSA do in order to stop Richmond from falling?

What does the Union do in order to take Richmond?

And if Richmond does fall, does the CSA fall along with their capital?

Anything else?
 
Three questions

1) Could Richmond be taken by the fall of 1861? I think that if the treasonous rebels had been beaten clearly that July day the answer is yes.

2) If Richmond falls quickly does the CSA collapse?

3) If the rebellion is defeated reasonably easily what happens to slavery and what happens to the Southern states generally?

Lincoln believed that it was morally wrong but that in normal circumstances there was no legal power for the Federal government to interfere with it in individual states. (He was right on the first and probably on the second.)

After 18 months Lincoln felt able to justify the Emancipation Proclamation as a War measure- morally right but stretching war powers to their extreme.


I suspect that what would happen would be less revolutionary than the events of 1865-70 in OTL, however I suspect that Davis and others were more likely to have been hanged.
 
Three questions

1) Could Richmond be taken by the fall of 1861? I think that if the treasonous rebels had been beaten clearly that July day the answer is yes.

2) If Richmond falls quickly does the CSA collapse?

3) If the rebellion is defeated reasonably easily what happens to slavery and what happens to the Southern states generally?

Lincoln believed that it was morally wrong but that in normal circumstances there was no legal power for the Federal government to interfere with it in individual states. (He was right on the first and probably on the second.)

After 18 months Lincoln felt able to justify the Emancipation Proclamation as a War measure- morally right but stretching war powers to their extreme.


I suspect that what would happen would be less revolutionary than the events of 1865-70 in OTL, however I suspect that Davis and others were more likely to have been hanged.
 
What if Joe Johnston was late arriving, with CSA reinforcments, at First Mannassas. Consequentially Beauregard was left on his own to battle it out with the Union army. Alas for Beauregard, numbers win the day, & he is defeated.

So what does the CSA do in order to stop Richmond from falling?

What does the Union do in order to take Richmond?

And if Richmond does fall, does the CSA fall along with their capital?

Anything else?

I think that in such a scenario as Beauregard's army being routed that the Union Army would reach Joe Johnston's Army of the Shenandoah, intent of getting their great "war ending" victory. What would happen then would be that the Union advance would be stopped by Johnston's army and Jackson would save the day again. The soldiers of Beauregard's army that were retreating would rally around the AOS and a total defeat would be averted. Johnston would take command of both armies in the aftermath and conduct his usual campaign of retreating to draw his enemy to a better location for his army to fight on and marshalling his strength for a big counter attack that would destroy the army against him.

Although Longstreet might become recognised as a good general earlier in this scenario.

Meanwhile the Union Army, boyed with the early sucess in this first major battle, would march on in high spirits. The cry "On the Richmond!" would be heard more often than ever. This Union army would likely run into Joe Johnston in one of his prefered battles and get defeated due to it's overconfidence.

Richmond isn't going to fall into Union hands this early. However this scenario does raise the question of whether or not the East would have to suffer McClellan or whether Lee would rise to priminance as he did in the OTL.
 
IIRC Davis wanted the Army of Virginia to persue the retreating Army of the Potomac, but Lee refused, prefering to regroup.

Here with the AoP farther into Virginia before being Defeated, could whe have a pursuit and a greater Southerern Victory.
 
I think that in such a scenario as Beauregard's army being routed that the Union Army would reach Joe Johnston's Army of the Shenandoah, intent of getting their great "war ending" victory. What would happen then would be that the Union advance would be stopped by Johnston's army and Jackson would save the day again. The soldiers of Beauregard's army that were retreating would rally around the AOS and a total defeat would be averted. Johnston would take command of both armies in the aftermath and conduct his usual campaign of retreating to draw his enemy to a better location for his army to fight on and marshalling his strength for a big counter attack that would destroy the army against him.

Although Longstreet might become recognised as a good general earlier in this scenario.

Meanwhile the Union Army, boyed with the early sucess in this first major battle, would march on in high spirits. The cry "On the Richmond!" would be heard more often than ever. This Union army would likely run into Joe Johnston in one of his prefered battles and get defeated due to it's overconfidence.

Richmond isn't going to fall into Union hands this early. However this scenario does raise the question of whether or not the East would have to suffer McClellan or whether Lee would rise to priminance as he did in the OTL.

Johnston could win but actually destroying the AOP is near ASB.
 
Johnston could win but actually destroying the AOP is near ASB.

I didn't say he would have destroyed the AOTP just that he could have defeated the overconfident Union Army if they fought him on a battlefield of his chosing.

If you are however refering to this bit:

"Johnston would take command of both armies in the aftermath and conduct his usual campaign of retreating to draw his enemy to a better location for his army to fight on and marshalling his strength for a big counter attack that would destroy the army against him"

This was just to discirbe the tactics that Joe Johnston emloyed. He never once destroyed a Union Army but he tended to save the majority of his armies strength with the intention of drawing his enemy to a battlefield of his chosing where he could then unleash the full force of his army in a counter attack.
 
I think the fact that hurts the Confederacy most is the likelihood that Englishmen and Frenchmen buy less Confederate bonds.
 
Such a result is surely possible, as before Joe Johnson's men arrived, the Union had a slightly better chance for victory than the Confederates.

But there are at least two factors that save Richmond. The first is the same one that saved Washington, Both armies were basicly untrained militia and were badly disorganized by the end of the battle. There was also a lack of supplies to continue an advance. Second, if Johnson was late for Manassas, he would have appeared in a day or two with a reinforcement of fresh, undefeated troops. These, along with the slowly organizing defeated forces, would have ben enough to prevent the equally disorganized Union forces from reaching Richmond
 
Such a result is surely possible, as before Joe Johnson's men arrived, the Union had a slightly better chance for victory than the Confederates.

But there are at least two factors that save Richmond. The first is the same one that saved Washington, Both armies were basicly untrained militia and were badly disorganized by the end of the battle. There was also a lack of supplies to continue an advance. Second, if Johnson was late for Manassas, he would have appeared in a day or two with a reinforcement of fresh, undefeated troops. These, along with the slowly organizing defeated forces, would have ben enough to prevent the equally disorganized Union forces from reaching Richmond

True, for a while. But unless the Confederacy won a real victory instead of just forcing the Union to wait for its own reinforcements the Brits and French are unlikely to buy Confederate bonds.
 
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