Rebooting Jesus Walks

Hi everybody. Some of you might remember I started a :)cool:Turledove nominated:cool:) TL a while back called Jesus Walks, it was about the Iranian Hostage Crisis going tits-up and turning into a massacre, which provokes a US invasion of Iran.

It was pretty clear to everyone from the get-go that this was ultimately to set up Pat Robertson making a successful presidential bid, which, in my view, distracted me from what really should have been the focus of the TL: holy shit, the US is going to attempt a land war in Iran. So I'm going to do a reboot/retool/relaunch of the TL. If there's anybody left here who remembers it and cares, I'd like to know if there's else anything in particular you'd like to see in the reboot, and especially if there's anything you think I really bungled the first time around.

So essentially, this will be the planning thread for my new TL, which will focus on the aftermath of an Iranian hostage massacre (instead of using that as the setup for a story years down the road I'll never actually get to). All the cards are in the air.
 
I mentioned D&D and TSR in the thread, and the Evangelical melt down that grew over it. That's what I can think of off the top of my head.
 
I have no real comment to add other than I enjoyed the original and will look forward to whatever else comes.
 
I may have suggested a few things.
I'll have to think of others. (Perhaps Buckminster Fuller's GENI powergrid initiative gets picked up?)
 
If there's anybody left here who remembers it and cares, I'd like to know if there's else anything in particular you'd like to see in the reboot, and especially if there's anything you think I really bungled the first time around.

Let's not have the actually POD be a different Billy Beer and no Jonestown Massacre. I am reposting a reply I made in the original thread.

What about the six who hid in the Canadian embassy. Surely, they would've gotten out by now ITTL. Also, there were two people at the embassy who were working off site at the Iranian American Institute. Think you can have them survive as well? And what of the three embassy officials who were over at the Iranian foreign ministry?

With that in mind, 55 people killed in the massacre, 3 diplomats at the Iranian Foreign Ministry in danger, and 14 People (Morefield's group that failed to escape, the two working in a cultural center that were discovered by the Komiteh a few days after, and, of course, the six diplomats who made it to the Canadian embassy and hid there) on the run, likely heading for the Canadian Compound and a probable exfiltration, like OTL.

Also, let's not do any Jodie Foster stuff, James Bond films, or an actual adaptation of the Argo script into a movie starring Tony Mendez. Found the last one to be ASB. Do keep The Beatles and Montel Williams in though. I loathe Sylvia Browne and her "predictions" that were proven to be wrong.
 
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You know, when I first saw the thread title for the original, I thought "Huh. So Pontius Pilate releases Jesus? Wait, this is the post-1900 thread." :)

Will definitely take a look when the new version appears!
 
I had a shower thought I mentioned elsewhere, which may work if you have Pat Robertson become president: that being Kirk Cameron entering politics. He's very active religiously, and my thinking on this is that he became a Born Again Christian in the 80s and maybe Pat Robertson entering politics could push him to enter political life. On that note, I'm not sure how you'll write this, but maybe on the whole Robertson becoming president would invest the Religious Right even deeper in politics and get them more active in running politicians more so than the OTL where a lot of it is just surrogates who appease them but who are not members (Ronald Reagan). A horrifying thought is if that means we get a similar entity to the Tea Party out of that, not necessarily in terms of ideology but in dynamic and how it operates within the Republican party and on American politics.

Btw, if I can showcase this, its the Cinemasnob review of Kirk Cameron's "Saving Christmas". And if I need an excuse, that film shows off some odd things Kirk Cameron thinks, and is a showcase of his psychology. Plus its the reason I had that thought.

http://www.thecinemasnob.com/midnight-screenings/midnight-screenings-kirk-camerons-saving-christmas
 
I really liked the original Jesus Walks. A land war in Iran will be gruesomley fascinating. I'll keep an eye on this :)
 
I've never been super keen on celebrity politicians in TLs, to be honest. The reason I had that as Jodie Foster's fate in the original thread was that I felt it was solidly justified for her: she could campaign against gun violence as an ATL James Brady analogue, and her paralysis would derail her acting career.

Let's not have the actually POD be a different Billy Beer and no Jonestown Massacre.

Billy Beer was fun. :p The Jonestown stuff was a mistake though, since I made future events (that we never got to) contingent upon it before realizing that it happened in '79. In the reboot, the embassy will be the true POD. Basically a whole lot of problems with the original thread came from me planning events way too far in advance and neglecting the story that was actually unfolding.

I am reposting a reply I made in the original thread.

Taken into consideration this time.

Also, let's not do... an actual adaptation of the Argo script into a movie starring Tony Mendez. Found the last one to be ASB.

Oh come on, that was fun. :p

(This TL will be less goofy fun paperback potboiler than the original thread, though, since that one was very much "badass political thriller" whereas the reboot will be going for "holy shit this is worse than 'Nam".)
 
@DStecks,

Very good to see you coming home to this TL. It's got massive potential (and was a lot of fun last time in your hands, even if we have to sacrifice things like the Rogue Warrior/Putin buddy-cop scenario or Montel Williams' alternate life this time around *sighs*)

The chaos of an occupation-gone-wrong is a story-thread in its own right, as someone observed up-thread there were some Embassy personnel not on-site at the time, and beyond that there were still something like 300 Americans, a number of them part of news crews, in Tehran at the time of the takeover. Theirs is a little told story and this sort of scenario offers a perfect opportunity not only to give them a different TL in which they have to try and survive, but also a chance to have their real-life experiences highlighted and exposed to a broader audience (always nice when alternate history can do that sort of thing.)

Then there's the question of what happens to everyone else? We know the Soviet Embassy was a potential target from the debate among OTL's takeover planners, and that the British High Commission was a perennial sore spot. (Also, for a vantage point, the Canadians offer good source material from the relatively recent book -- last few years -- Our Man in Tehran about their consular personnel's experience 1978-80.) How far does "get the Americans!" spiral in the balkanized factional crazy of late 1979 Tehran? Do you have a Boxer Rebellion reimagined by M.C. Escher, or a state of confusion (plus lynch mobs after Yankee infidels) played upon by various outside factions?

Another great source given the direction you want to go is David Crist's excellent book The Twilight War which covers the late 1970s up to about 2012 in the US-Iranian conflict. The first three or four chapters are rich with stuff for you and authentically fucking scary. Just wait till you get to the bit about the mountain passes. The rest of those chapters are lovely source material too (there's a State Department employee in there who passed for a member of the angry mobs during the February Revolution who might be well imagined as a "player character" in this scenario, for example.) Also if I remember there's an oldish thread on here about WI the Soviets broadened their Central Asian ambitions and invaded that includes material from a Russian who may just have wanted attention post-1989 but might (might) have been a reliable source about just such planning wargamed from the theatre command nearest the Iranian border.

As for Preacher Pat, the whole time I've spent reading the delightful almost-dystopia (except that the massive level of GOP sad is a pleasure to read) of Slippery When Wet, it's given me cause to think about Jesus Walks and that foundational question about 1980 politicking, what happens if Reagan bows out/is forced out? This is around the time when IOTL Robertson kicked up his 700 Club presence a notch beyond speaking to the already-converted, specifically because he couched the crises of 1979-80 in apocalyptic terms. On one hand, sans Reagan, you could have folks like Richard Viguerie and Paul Weyrich descend on Robertson as a Robert Redford-in-The Candidate figure for the New Right, since he doesn't already have an equivalent of Reagan's California mafia for an inner political circle. At the same time, an establishment-Republican nominee might have to look to a strong, insurgent Robertson candidacy for his running mate to shore up the party's right. And what if something happened to that nominee?...

The other fun thing about that scenario is, if one already has Pat out there doing his eschatological thang, it can contrast ironically with the reality that a major American pummeling of Iran really could push things close to World War III...


Sidebar: also worth noting, from several sources, the assault on the US Embassy in Islamabad a few weeks after OTL's Tehran embassy seizure, an attack (the Islamabad one) triggered by presumptions that the US was somehow tied to the ultra-Wahabbi seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca. The Americans who locked themselves in the secure Chancery on-site, while the rest of the embassy was burned to the ground -- some sixty-odd US personnel of various descriptions -- were less than an hour from running out of oxygen when the Pakistani authorities finally secured the site and gave them the opportunity to get out safely. The lowered oxygen levels were in fact blamed for finishing off a badly wounded Marine guard who had lost a great deal of blood. So even leaving aside some kind of mass lynching, just dragging US personnel out into the street to hang or shoot them, there are several ways one could kill most or all of the people in the Tehran embassy that amount, in practice, to "fog of war" casualties (especially asphyxiation by fire or forced enclosure.) Then you've got a mystery to go along with the chaos: whodunit (ie what particular group)? For what reasons (on purpose? by horrific accident? to discredit another faction?) ? Will that have any influence on how the US reacts, or how it later views its own choices in reacting, or influence other major players wrt Iran (Moscow, Iraq, Pakistan, the Saudis, etc.) ?

So, yeah, do definitely get back to this. And bring the Billy Beer... ;)
 
I enjoyed it but lacked the time to discover Pat Robertson was to become president, I always thought the title referred to Iranian apocalyptic considerations.
 
If you haven't seen it, here's Robertson caught in a candid moment when he didn't think he was being recorded in case its of any research use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUbvc5U-H-I


On the note of the Cameron thing, I myself am not usually for the celebrity as politician thing in alternate history, because it's usually a bad trope. Not everyone wants to be a politician, and in fact precious few people do. It takes a certain degree of interest, belief you are capable of holding office, and dedication to that horse race and way of life. Even people that may have an interest in politics may not think they're qualified (James Garner, for example) or may not want to live a life in this very PR-based, salesman type existence. However, I myself do have an interest where it may be a prospect, which is why I brought up Kirk Cameron because he seems like a guy who could go in for it and probably end up like a Rick Santorum. Not to say I'm pressuring you to do it if you don't care to.
Btw, on a related note, if you had Pat Robertson elected, it'd be a hell of a way to get Frank Zappa to run in politics and I do think he could do it if he was so incensed by the fact that the Religious Right, which he characterized as fascist I believe, had won the election. Frank Zappa was a believer in politics, and he always encouraged kids to register to vote, and had registration booths outside his concerts. He'd probably run, as either an Independent or a moderate-to-libertarian Republican or a traditional Democrat. Or maybe it could be a fake out/flavor for the reader: "Maybe I'd run, but I'm too sick". Again, that's just an idea.

Which relates to another thing I'm interested in seeing, which is the potential backlash against the Religious Right in the United States if Robertson becomes president. And you don't have to reply to this either way if it could contain spoilers about anything. It seems like things would have get worse before they'd get better; that the Religious Right would have to attain the presidency and political success in the Congress and so forth before the movement and it's members would be rolled back. And Robertson becoming president would lead into that, with the Religious Right getting as bad as it can before there's major pushback on it, lack of enthusiasm among its members, the deligitimizing of it to the public, etc. OTL, the Religious Right felt it was on the path to ascendency with Reagan and Bush, which is why they hated Clinton and came back with the junior George W. Bush in 2000.
 
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