Reasons for Scramble For Europe?

So in a world where Africa or Asia had come out on top, in the ALT-1870s, why would a scramble for Europe occur? What natural resources or materials would be there for nations to colonize to get?
 
Coal in Germany and Silesia. Wool maybe? Was there still lots of amber to be had? Also a captive market for industrialy produced goods.
 
Natural Resources, Farmland, Timber (assuming Europe is less advanced and thus used-up less of its forests), Fisheries, Captive Market, Labor force.
 
Yes, this Europe would be less developed, the whole idea actually came about when my friends discussed Zulus in Victorian uniforms with guns facing off against Dark Ages Scottish warriors.
 
So in a world where Africa or Asia had come out on top, in the ALT-1870s, why would a scramble for Europe occur? What natural resources or materials would be there for nations to colonize to get?

Why isnt this in ASB?
Because when you talk about Africa or Asia - you can only mean the Arab/Muslim Empires.Everyone trying to get to Europe from farther South or East would have to deal with them first
 
Why isnt this in ASB?
Because when you talk about Africa or Asia - you can only mean the Arab/Muslim Empires.Everyone trying to get to Europe from farther South or East would have to deal with them first

I think you are assuming a bit much. The British had no problem getting "through" the Muslim states to penetrate Asia in OTL. Why would, let's say for purposes of conjecture, a Javanese Kingdom which was highly advanced have trouble sailing around Africa to Europe?

It's not neccisarily ASB but it does require a POD long in the past. Perhaps you if you isolated those factors which drove poor late medeival Europe to discover new lands resources and riches, and then the technologies to fully exploit the. And find a POD far back enough you could see a similar development of states in southern Africa like what was seen OTL in Europe. Hence Zulus in uniform facing scots.

An AH which stretches over such a long period of time leaves tons of room for butterflies to change things.
 
It's not neccisarily ASB but it does require a POD long in the past. Perhaps you if you isolated those factors which drove poor late medeival Europe to discover new lands resources and riches, and then the technologies to fully exploit the. And find a POD far back enough you could see a similar development of states in southern Africa like what was seen OTL in Europe. Hence Zulus in uniform facing scots.
Not with the Arab slavery robbing (South) Africa of countless Millions of people.They would have to defeat this first before they could advance or develop.
 
Not with the Arab slavery robbing (South) Africa of countless Millions of people.They would have to defeat this first before they could advance or develop.

History does not start with the Arab invasion of Africa, but beyond that the Arab Slave Trade only affected North and East Africa.
 

Dirk_Pitt

Banned
I think everyones missing something here. The only reason why Europe was late to the imperialism game in Africa is because it took certain tech developments to get through the malaria ridden jungles and what not. What kind of barriers would the Africans/Asians have against colonizing Europe that would delay it that long. I think you're assuming that Europe becomes the new Africa?
 
I think everyones missing something here. The only reason why Europe was late to the imperialism game in Africa is because it took certain tech developments to get through the malaria ridden jungles and what not. What kind of barriers would the Africans/Asians have against colonizing Europe that would delay it that long. I think you're assuming that Europe becomes the new Africa?
Well yes, that was the idea, I was trying to find ways around these barriers to make the idea more plausible.
 
Something that seems like an obstacle to me is that Europe is much smaller than Africa. European colonization took off because Europe was becoming a very crowded place to live, and the New World offered massive tracts of land, often for free. Africa is very, very large, so I'm not certain what it would take for Africans to want to migrate en masse anywhere. Even if the African powers want Europe's resources, colonization is a non-starter, and extensive colonization is a requirement for permanent control. That's why the Americas are still controlled by European peoples, and Africa and India aren't.
 

ingemann

Banned
I have a hard time seeing a dark age Europe in a world with modern empires anywhere in Eurasia. At 1800 the rest of Eurasia was only a few centuries behind Europe technological, and there was a good reason for that, technogy spread in Eurasia, because if a people don't adopt new tech they are overrun by their neighbours. But I could see a fragmented tribal rural Europe using flintlock musket as their main weapon and in general having a society similar to 19th century Afghanistan.
 
I think Europe would be more an India or a China than an Africa. Africa really isn't a place for building a decent empire, I've heard the soil is iffy, there's some pretty poor river networks in many areas, and loads of tropical diseases.
 
This seems like it could be an extension of the Medieval HIV thread. Let's say that shortly after Rome falls, *HIV pops up throughout Europe as a result of the mass migrations. Most of the population is infected, but as the generations pass the percentage decreases. However, with AIDS flaring up every so often, new disease will evolve, especially in cities on the Mediterranean and other places that have cross-community contact. Europeans develop immunity to some of these diseases, which also don't spread past North Africa and the Near East due to the lack of alt-HIV to figuratively pave the way.

Europe's economy and technology levels will be effectively retarded by higher rates of isolation between towns and cities, not to mention severely stunted population growth rates. Foreign traders may come through the area sporadically, but virulent and constantly mutating waves of plague will keep them from starting settlements and such. The "Scramble for Europe" will represent some medical breakthrough, which would probably be immunization, but the details of this scenario get fuzzy when we're talking about diseases that don't exist.
 
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