Reaped by the Whirlwind

I was just looking at the wikipedia article on the Westland Whirlwind after reading the design an aeroplane thread and it's raised some questions.

The Whirlwind was a heavy fighter armed with four 20mm cannon, at a time when most of it's contempories had nothing more than rifle calibre machine guns, however it's engine, the Rolls-Royce Peregrine, proved unreliable in service, and the Whirlwind never had the high altitude performance needed to match the Hurricane and Spitfire.

That said the Whirlwind was a very effective plane at low altitude and as an attack aircraft. If the wiki article is correct it was a particularly nasty surprise to German E-Boats and supply trains, perhaps more so than it's successor the Hawker Typhoon.

So what if this rather underated plane was given more of a chance by the RAF? What if the Peregrine was developed a bit more? Would the Whirlwind have become the Stuka of the Allies?
 
I was just looking at the wikipedia article on the Westland Whirlwind after reading the design an aeroplane thread and it's raised some questions.

The Whirlwind was a heavy fighter armed with four 20mm cannon, at a time when most of it's contempories had nothing more than rifle calibre machine guns, however it's engine, the Rolls-Royce Peregrine, proved unreliable in service, and the Whirlwind never had the high altitude performance needed to match the Hurricane and Spitfire.

That said the Whirlwind was a very effective plane at low altitude and as an attack aircraft. If the wiki article is correct it was a particularly nasty surprise to German E-Boats and supply trains, perhaps more so than it's successor the Hawker Typhoon.

So what if this rather underated plane was given more of a chance by the RAF? What if the Peregrine was developed a bit more? Would the Whirlwind have become the Stuka of the Allies?

It could certainly play hell on the Luftwaffe bombers during the BoB. It could make a devastating interceptor if the wiki's word on "could hold its own with the Bf 109" will translate to high altitude ATL. Speed in past the escort and tear into the Heinkels and Dorniers with the four 20's. Certainly bad news for the Luftwaffe.

What if you ditched the Peregrines and put Merlins on this? Assuming you could retool the Peregrine lines to make Merlins, or else you'll run into competition with Spits and Hurris for the engines.
 
What if you ditched the Peregrines and put Merlins on this? Assuming you could retool the Peregrine lines to make Merlins, or else you'll run into competition with Spits and Hurris for the engines.

The problem, apparently, was that the Whirlwind airframe was tailored to closely to the Peregrine engine Westland's design team spent a great deal of effort making sure that the cowlings and engine mounts were aerodynamically tight to the shape of the Peregrine, that made it difficult if not impossible for any model of alternate engine to be fitted.

As the wiki articles say, the Peregrine was meant to be one of Roll-Royce's main products of the period, more so than the Merlin in fact, and that the Peregrine was less troublesome than the more powerful Napier Sabre, so what if the Peregrine is developed more during it's early days, perhaps at the expense of the RR Vulture.

How does this scenario work? The Vulture is abandoned before it leaves the drawing board and all the design effort that went into it in OTL is diverted to the Peregrine. Meanwhile the Merlin is pushed forward to replace the Vulture as RR's higher powered engine. This means the Avro Manchester bomber starts life with two Merlins before being upgraded in the Lancaster with four Merlins.

The Whirlwind gets progressively more powerful and advanced Peregrines, and sees service throughout the war as the Commonwealth's primary attack aircraft and heavy day fighter, until it's supplimented and replaced by the De Haviland Hornet, a conceptually similar fighter the development of which is pushed forward because of the success of the twin engined, four cannon, single seat Whirlwind, in 44/45.
 
I'm not sure ditching the Vluture helps, as a Peregrine is essntially two Peregrines strapped together, and debugging one helps debug the other.
 
The problem, apparently, was that the Whirlwind airframe was tailored to closely to the Peregrine engine Westland's design team spent a great deal of effort making sure that the cowlings and engine mounts were aerodynamically tight to the shape of the Peregrine, that made it difficult if not impossible for any model of alternate engine to be fitted.

As the wiki articles say, the Peregrine was meant to be one of Roll-Royce's main products of the period, more so than the Merlin in fact, and that the Peregrine was less troublesome than the more powerful Napier Sabre, so what if the Peregrine is developed more during it's early days, perhaps at the expense of the RR Vulture.

How does this scenario work? The Vulture is abandoned before it leaves the drawing board and all the design effort that went into it in OTL is diverted to the Peregrine. Meanwhile the Merlin is pushed forward to replace the Vulture as RR's higher powered engine. This means the Avro Manchester bomber starts life with two Merlins before being upgraded in the Lancaster with four Merlins.

The Whirlwind gets progressively more powerful and advanced Peregrines, and sees service throughout the war as the Commonwealth's primary attack aircraft and heavy day fighter, until it's supplimented and replaced by the De Haviland Hornet, a conceptually similar fighter the development of which is pushed forward because of the success of the twin engined, four cannon, single seat Whirlwind, in 44/45.

Oy, Landshark! Stop posting on other people's ideas and get back to writing your own :D. Was really hoping the Trinity and BSG timelines would be continued.

Anyway… As stated previously the engines were the main problem, but I believe the plane lacked range on Peregrine's as well; this would be exacerbated by the more thirsty Merlins, so this idea is definitely a no-no.
 
The Whirlwind was a successful aircraft in combat, both German air and ground forces did not like encountering them. At their operational altitude(low level) they could meet Me109 and the Fw190 on even terms. Their range of 800 miles was good for it's class. The later development of the Welkin with Merlin engines was intended as a high altitude machine but if it had been made as a general purpose aircraft it's performance suggests it would have been equally effective, also it had a range of 1,000 miles.
 
Top