Reality Check: A Limited Roman Restoration in 1356 AD

Well, Age of Miracles convinced me that it could survive a post-Fourth Crusade scenario...granted, I have little love for the Palaiologos dynasty in general, sans maybe Michael VIII and Constantine XI (albeit for more of a BotW reason than anything...)

Still, even with a 1356 scenario, it is stretching plausibility a bit, but even then, history has seen a lot of weird things that happened, and the fact that Byzantium even survived to 1453 was a stretch in plausibility, even by historical scenarios...I'm pretty sure you would have to agree with me on that Elfwine.

You do realize it being a stretch that they got as far as they did otl kind of works against the argument that they could go for a hundred and fifty more years. I mean maybe a decade at most, but frankly their end would probably only be more pathetic than it was OTL (although to be fair OTL was about as dignified an end as the Roman Empire could ever receive. I mean it works much better as a better story to have a gallant last stand against impossible odds than to have them be brought down in pathetic whimpering sackings).
 
Some things which have to happen for this are more easily achieved than others. Perhaps if Murad's brother Suleiman had lived longer, there would have been an Ottoman power struggle after Orhan's death. Still, that would involve your 1356 date to be moved slightly later, and would necessitate other changes too.
 
As someone who thinks Byzantium surviving until 1600 is somewhere between unlikely and as close to impossible as can be stated when theoretically you could have the Serbs spontaneously decide to pledge allegiance to the basileus (say), I don't.

At some point, nations pass the point of no return.
Having the Serbs pledge allegiance to the Basileus is easy. Just have said emperor be the Serbian king...

Seriously, a union with another Orthodox power (probably, at least partly by marriage), might well be the best way to go. Its not likely to work, but it may be less unlikely than most of the alternatives. Expanding your starting base can only help.
 

Deleted member 67076

Having the Serbs pledge allegiance to the Basileus is easy. Just have said emperor be the Serbian king...

Seriously, a union with another Orthodox power (probably, at least partly by marriage), might well be the best way to go. Its not likely to work, but it may be less unlikely than most of the alternatives. Expanding your starting base can only help.
Hmm, if Stefan Dusan didn't die and managed to take Constantinople, than its possible. Although, this probably requires a POD during the Second Palaiologian Civil war.

Bulgaria might be another option if Tsar Ivan Alexander played his cards right. I think he had a marriage alliance set up in the 1350s and relations were mostly good.
 
Having the Serbs pledge allegiance to the Basileus is easy. Just have said emperor be the Serbian king...

Seriously, a union with another Orthodox power (probably, at least partly by marriage), might well be the best way to go. Its not likely to work, but it may be less unlikely than most of the alternatives. Expanding your starting base can only help.

Indeed, I don't think the Byzantines ever really had as strong a regard for hereditary succession as the Latin West, so it's not actually impossible for them to choose a foreigner as their Emperor. Maybe if rejig the Palaeologans' dynastic history a bit so that a latter day Empress Irene comes to the throne and seeks to improve her position by marrying into the royal family of Serbia or Bulgaria and making her new husband joint ruler, although admittedly this would probably require you to go back before 1356.
 
Indeed, I don't think the Byzantines ever really had as strong a regard for hereditary succession as the Latin West, so it's not actually impossible for them to choose a foreigner as their Emperor. Maybe if rejig the Palaeologans' dynastic history a bit so that a latter day Empress Irene comes to the throne and seeks to improve her position by marrying into the royal family of Serbia or Bulgaria and making her new husband joint ruler, although admittedly this would probably require you to go back before 1356.

The problem is not their regard or lack thereof for hereditary succession as their lack of respect for "barbarians", aka nonRomans.

It might be noted that Irene failed in this context.
 
The problem is not their regard or lack thereof for hereditary succession as their lack of respect for "barbarians", aka nonRomans.

It might be noted that Irene failed in this context.

Sure Irene failed, but then she wasn't married to the ruler of a much stronger and wealthier power right on the Empire's borders. As for the barbarian issue, yes, there'd be a fair few people who didn't like it, but Byzantium isn't exactly in a position to effectively resist at the moment.
 
1) Do something to cripple the Serbians.

2) Do something to cripple the Ottomans

3) Have the Romans defeat the Serbians and reoccupy Macedonia and annex Epirus.

4) If it survives until 1399, the Ottomans will be in civil war. Have the Romans retake the coast of Anatolia and poof, it's the Alexiad.
 

Dirk_Pitt

Banned
You do realize it being a stretch that they got as far as they did otl kind of works against the argument that they could go for a hundred and fifty more years. I mean maybe a decade at most, but frankly their end would probably only be more pathetic than it was OTL (although to be fair OTL was about as dignified an end as the Roman Empire could ever receive. I mean it works much better as a better story to have a gallant last stand against impossible odds than to have them be brought down in pathetic whimpering sackings).

But you're assuming nothing changes from OTL, which is not what we're saying.

Maybe one atom does the time warp and moves slightly to the left, which causes Murad I's ball sack to explode in a nuclear fire ball*:)eek:).

I dunno but something happened in 1356 that leads to a world where in 1600 there is a Roman Empire surviving or even thriving.

*I wasn't actually seriously suggesting we blow up the Sultan's boys... by the way. That. Would. Just. Be. WRONG... on so many levels.
 
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