Realistic US Expansion: who else could join?

[oshron]

hey, all. i've been going over late-18th century history again for Anglo-American Rivalry, and a possibility occurs to me. first and foremost, the US doesn't get all of its OTL territorial gains, so its international as well as internal borders will look quite different by TTL's present-day. that's sorta beside the point, though.

one thing i'd like to explore is the possibility of other territory that's not part of the OTL US joining the union of Anglo-American Rivalry. one that comes to mind is, potentially, a second California Republic comprised mostly of the Baja Peninsula, because the area is largely cut off from the rest of Mexico by desert. another possibility that comes to mind is Haiti, possibly butterflying in notions of statehood among the Haitians and partly to rub it in the nose of the former CSA (assuming such events come to pass ITTL; i'm still writing it all)

Baja Republic and possibly Haiti aside, does anyone know of other regions that want or wanted to join the US IOTL? i know there were times when at least parts of Canada considered it, but what else?

 

[Alex Richards]

Dominican Republic definately attempted to join but was turned down. I think there was a movement to annex the Yucatan and Republic of the Rio Grande but these were more filibusters than voluntary annexations. Nicaragua and Honduras perhaps?

 

[Socrates]

a second California Republic comprised mostly of the Baja Peninsula, because the area is largely cut off from the rest of Mexico by desert.

Cut off by desert? The peninsular is largely desert itself. It's hard to see how it would form a function republic.

another possibility that comes to mind is Haiti, possibly butterflying in notions of statehood among the Haitians and partly to rub it in the nose of the former CSA (assuming such events come to pass ITTL; i'm still writing it all)

Regardless of how much they hated the CSA, the Union is still run by racist white men. There's no way they're going to let in a state dominated by unruly blacks.

 

[oshron]

Cut off by desert? The peninsular is largely desert itself. It's hard to see how it would form a function republic.

it wouldnt necessarily be a functioning republic, it would just declare independence at some point and join the union shortly thereafter

 

[Zuvarq]

Regardless of how much they hated the CSA, the Union is still run by racist white men. There's no way they're going to let in a state dominated by unruly blacks.

They wouldn't have to go and visit the Haitians personally, unless they want to go in and buy some of the region's immense sugar and tropical wood resources.

Also the Haitians would always vote Republican until the enforcement of civil rights nationally, which would be appealing during Reconstruction. And the few white men there would not stop them.

 

[oshron]

another possibility just occurred to me: Panama. thoughts?

 

[Styrofoam Boots]

I see AH maps with Gran Colombia as part of the US. I think it's ASB but I could be wrong.

 

[The Kiat]

. Nicaragua and Honduras perhaps?

Didn't a couple of Central American states make an attempt (might have been through filibustering) but were rejected because of concerns over expanding slavery? I know if slavery were never an issue, Cuba would be a State, and all over Mexico might have been taken.

 

[LNSS]

If the republics of Rio Grande and Yucatan survive, maybe Cuba too

 

[strangeland]

I see AH maps with Gran Colombia as part of the US. I think it's ASB but I could be wrong.

It is. Bolivar was deeply ambivalent towards the United States, and the U.S. at the time was too racist and anti-Catholic for this to be a realistic possibility.

Dominican Republic definately attempted to join but was turned down. I think there was a movement to annex the Yucatan and Republic of the Rio Grande but these were more filibusters than voluntary annexations. Nicaragua and Honduras perhaps?

The dictator of the Dominican Republic, Buenaventura Baez, did attempt to sell his country to the U.S. in the 1870s and very nearly succeeded, but the annexation treaty failed in the U.S. Senate, in large part because a few key senators got word that the Dominican people didn't support the annexation.

 

[Daztur]

Well we could see places with large minority populations being parts of the USA as territories rather than states (at least initially) like Hawaii. I could see some of the US's de facto protectorates in the Caribbean and Central America becoming territories and then later states a good bit later (like Hawaii again) or stay as territories (like Puerto Rico).

 

[Delvestius]

I wonder if the gold and diamond resources of sub-Saharan Africa were known to the Americans in the early nineteenth century, they would have been a bit more unwilling to allow Liberia to have independence, as well as it being a bit bigger.

Cuba and Hispaniola both seem like pretty good candidates to me.

 

[Color-Copycat]

If you somehow butterfly away the Quebec Act, you may be able to get a discontent Quebec to join in breaking away with the Anglophone Thirteen Colonies. But then there's the difficulty in reconciling the decidedly anti-Catholic majority of the Thirteen Colonies with the Quebecois once the war's over, so that might be a bit of a stretch.

 

[Socrates]

If you somehow butterfly away the Quebec Act, you may be able to get a discontent Quebec to join in breaking away with the Anglophone Thirteen Colonies. But then there's the difficulty in reconciling the decidedly anti-Catholic majority of the Thirteen Colonies with the Quebecois once the war's over, so that might be a bit of a stretch.

There's no way that Quebec would accept. They would want an independent state, with an alliance at best.

 

[Socrates]

They wouldn't have to go and visit the Haitians personally, unless they want to go in and buy some of the region's immense sugar and tropical wood resources.

Also the Haitians would always vote Republican until the enforcement of civil rights nationally, which would be appealing during Reconstruction. And the few white men there would not stop them.

The Republicans already had a majority, and it's more likely they would form their own black party to dominate power locally.

I'm sorry but this just isn't realistic. Why do you think the All Mexico movement didn't succeed? The US Senate would consider Haiti to be an ungovernable mess, with good justification.

 

[Iori]

Realistically most of OTL Northern Mexico, Dominican Republic, Cuba, some of the Leeward and Windward Caribbean Islands, one or all of the Guyana's and Greenland.

With specific circumstances you could get various parts of Canada, particularly the Western half and maybe some of the Atlantic Islands.

Cut off by desert? The peninsular is largely desert itself. It's hard to see how it would form a function republic.

The Baja Califonia peninsula has a population of 3.79 million people, further more only half of the peninsula at most is desert, it's also home to coastal climates, alpine forests, mountains and some agricultural land.

 

[Mike Stearns]

There's no way that Quebec would accept. They would want an independent state, with an alliance at best.

I agree. A successful uprising in Nova Scotia would be a better bet.

 

[Jape]

The Baja Califonia peninsula has a population of 3.79 million people, further more only half of the peninsula at most is desert, it's also home to coastal climates, alpine forests, mountains and some agricultural land.

Which was part of Mexico's relatively recent population boom - in the 19th century there was little in the way of settlement. Mexico City didn't grant statehood until the 1950s.

Best bet is Baja is taken in 1848 as part of the California Territory. Which might encourage a north-south split of the area.

 

[Iori]

Which was part of Mexico's relatively recent population boom - in the 19th century there was little in the way of settlement. Mexico City didn't grant statehood until the 1950s.

Best bet is Baja is taken in 1848 as part of the California Territory. Which might encourage a north-south split of the area.

The point I was making is that it's not some completely unhospitable place.

And while you're correct its population did'nt really grow until the 20th century, this was more because Mexico's population was small until then and the entire Northern half of the country in general was underpopulated.

 

[606jae]

Yuctan actually asked the US to annex them twice I think. After WWI the US was offered a mandate over Armenia. It is possible that the mandate had been accpted then the Armenians would have decided to stay with the USA