Reagan’s reputation on economic issues if no assassination attempt?

[GeographyDude]

“The US public would never permit an open alliance with Pol Pot, Brzezinski (1983: 440) reasoned, but China and Thailand could be more pragmatic (Becker 1986: 440).”

Genocide by Proxy

A detailed, scholarly reassessment of developments in Cambodia since December 25, 1978, when Vietnamese combat soldiers expelled the ruthless Pol Pot regime. Genocide by Proxy is an account of a country at war and of a people consigned to the role of pawn in world politics. Michael Haas contends...

books.google.com

Zbigniew Brzezinski was Pres. Carter’s Nat’l Security Advisor.

And even though this information is based on an interview with Brzezinski, older persons sometimes tell stories which exaggerate their own importance — and I rather hope that’s the case here! But I think it’s not.

 

[GeographyDude]

. . . If we were so anti-Communist back then, why the f**k would we have supported the Khmer Rouge, . . .

realpolitik

. . . to get brownie points with China and simultaneously get revenge on Vietnam.

With an emphasis on the later. Revenge on Vietnam is a sure thing, better working relations with the Chinese is merely an outside policy. We could have just said, no thanks to the Chinese on this one. We wanted to hurt Vietnam.

And if we go ahead and also look at the Dick Cheney’s chief-of-staff Scooter Libby probably revealing the name of a CIA agent just because her husband had publicly criticized the Bush administration for claiming the nation of Niger had provided uranium “yellowcake” to Iraq, my God, we’re dealing with a junior high (age 13 ! ! !) level of maturity.

Lewis “Scooter” Libby was convicted of lying to the FBI and similar changes, and his sentence was later commuted by Pres. Bush so he would serve probabtion but not imprisonment.

The conservative columnist Robert Novak revealed the CIA agent’s name in a column on July 14, 2003.

Timeline: The CIA Leak Case

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was convicted of obstruction of justice, perjury and othe rcharges in the CIA leak case. President Bush commuted Libby's 30-month prison sentence.

www.npr.org

I had thought of Novak as an intellectual and pretty serious guy, but I guess not!

Again, don’t over-estimate the maturity of these people.

Here’s Carters Nat’l Security guy Zbigniew Brzezinski (getting a medal in ‘81).

And here’s the character “Steve Stifler”played by Seann William Scott in the movie American Pie

Which one is more mature ? ! ?

——————————-

And perhaps one reason I focus on economics as a more hopeful, cheery subject.

 

[GeographyDude]

Reagan might not have gotten the support for tax cuts that he needed w/o the assassination attempt (at least not in the first term). Reagan may need to compromise more with Democrats on economic issues. But the economy still recovers and Reagan is still re-elected in 1984.

Yes, I think this is the most likely outcome.

 

[Amadeus]

Yes, I think this is the most likely outcome.

That said I think tax cuts would still be a part of modern GOP orthodoxy, but perhaps to a somewhat lesser extent of they aren't as dramatic under Reagan. (Who of course raised taxes multiple times anyway, but that's another matter).

 

[Don Corleone]

With an emphasis on the later. Revenge on Vietnam is a sure thing, better working relations with the Chinese is merely an outside policy. We could have just said, no thanks to the Chinese on this one. We wanted to hurt Vietnam.

And if we go ahead and also look at the Dick Cheney’s chief-of-staff Scooter Libby probably revealing the name of a CIA agent just because her husband had publicly criticized the Bush administration for claiming the nation of Niger had provided uranium “yellowcake” to Iraq, my God, we’re dealing with a junior high (age 13 ! ! !) level of maturity.

Lewis “Scooter” Libby was convicted of lying to the FBI and similar changes, and his sentence was later commuted by Pres. Bush so he would serve probabtion but not imprisonment.

The conservative columnist Robert Novak revealed the CIA agent’s name in a column on July 14, 2003.

Timeline: The CIA Leak Case

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was convicted of obstruction of justice, perjury and othe rcharges in the CIA leak case. President Bush commuted Libby's 30-month prison sentence.

www.npr.org

I had thought of Novak as an intellectual and pretty serious guy, but I guess not!

Again, don’t over-estimate the maturity of these people.

Here’s Carters Nat’l Security guy Zbigniew Brzezinski (getting a medal in ‘81).

And here’s the character “Steve Stifler”played by Seann William Scott in the movie American Pie

Which one is more mature ? ! ?

——————————-

And perhaps one reason I focus on economics as a more hopeful, cheery subject.

Richard Armitage was the leaker. Scooter Libby got busted for the coverup.

 

[GeographyDude]

Tigers, Tiger Cubs and Economic Growth

Economic growth of East Asia can be seen by dividing countries into three distinct groups.

www.stlouisfed.org

I think we probably need some good news on foreign policy. So, yes, the “East Asian Miracle,” also known as the “Asian Tigers,” produced a lot of improvement to the quality of life of many, many human beings.

And news flash, at least Japan and South Korea involved land reform — which means taking land from rich people, maybe with something approaching full compensation or maybe with only partial compensation, and at the very least selling it to poor people at below market rates, or maybe even giving the land to them for free.

Yes, it smacks of communism. But we didn’t let that scare us off!

And heck, we could have done the same thing in Africa and Latin America. This is a substantial missed opportunity.

 

[marathag]

nd heck, we could have done the same thing in Africa and Latin America. This is a substantial missed opportunity.

Mugabe showed that redistribution of land from Rich to Poor did nothing for raising people out of poverty. You gain little going to small plots of land, unless you are just aiming for subsistence farming.

 

[Don Corleone]

Mugabe showed that redistribution of land from Rich to Poor did nothing for raising people out of poverty. You gain little going to small plots of land, unless you are just aiming for subsistence farming.

Also doesn't help that the new landowners had very limited agricultural expertise.

Elites tend to think farmers are dumb bumpkins, but you have to know what you're doing. Most of us could learn, but we'd need a lot of training and experience before we could live off the land.

 

[GeographyDude]

That said I think tax cuts would still be a part of modern GOP orthodoxy, but perhaps to a somewhat lesser extent of they aren't as dramatic under Reagan. (Who of course raised taxes multiple times anyway, but that's another matter).

The Ol’ Gipper definitely had a pragmatic streak on economics. On the other hand, many of his acolytes have seemingly wanted to out-Reagan Reagan!

 

[GeographyDude]

Richard Armitage was the leaker. Scooter Libby got busted for the coverup.

According to the NPR article, columnist Robert Novak said it was two administration sources.

Timeline: The CIA Leak Case

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was convicted of obstruction of justice, perjury and othe rcharges in the CIA leak case. President Bush commuted Libby's 30-month prison sentence.

www.npr.org

 

[LordPez]

Mugabe showed that redistribution of land from Rich to Poor did nothing for raising people out of poverty. You gain little going to small plots of land, unless you are just aiming for subsistence farming.

Also doesn't help that the new landowners had very limited agricultural expertise.

Elites tend to think farmers are dumb bumpkins, but you have to know what you're doing. Most of us could learn, but we'd need a lot of training and experience before we could live off the land.

I don't think Mugabe's land reform program, which lasted over 25 years and went from "willing Seller, willing Buyer" to "compulsory acquisition, compulsory commercial investment into failing farms, state sponsored militia expulsion squads, etc." can be compared alongside the Asian Tiger economies.

Japan's program was pretty market friendly. "Between 1947 and 1949, approximately 5,800,000 acres (23,000 km2) of land (approximately 38% of Japan's cultivated land) was purchased from the landlords under the reform program and re-sold at extremely low prices (after inflation) to the farmers who worked them. By 1950, three million peasants had acquired land, dismantling a power structure that the landlords had long dominated". South Korea and Taiwan also were able to expropriate a large amount of formerly Japanese real estate post-WW2.

To address the thread's topic, Reagan is going to be seen as a lot less sympathetic/tough if he doesn't survive the assassination attempt. I still think he gets reelected in 84 but Iran-Contra will go over worse and the 82 energy crisis recession may last longer.

 

[Don Corleone]

For the original question I would say about the same. For most of the prior 10-12 years we were experiencing some form of economic pain - gas lines, inflation, recession, high interest rates. By 1988 we were in better shape.

I remember from Bill Clinton's autobiography that in the 1980s, 60% of the country was better off and 40% was worse off. Clinton considered that a bad statistic, but it made Reagan the tallest midget. The contrast to Nixon/Ford/Carter made Reagan look better than he really was and that wouldn't change.

 

[GeographyDude]

. . . I remember from Bill Clinton's autobiography that in the 1980s, 60% of the country was better off and 40% was worse off. . .

A little bit sounds like the beginning of a science fiction story, doesn’t it?

 

[GeographyDude]

The American Middle Class Is Losing Ground

After more than four decades of serving as the nation's economic majority, the U.S. middle class is now matched in size by those in the economic tiers above and below it.

www.pewresearch.org

This is based on self reports, and I think people often do bump their income upward due to pride.

Please notice that 3% left the middle class in 1980s — 2% moved to “highest” perhaps as cascading effect upward, and 1% moved to “lowest” also perhaps as a cascading effect.

Yes, it could be worse. All the same, how good for the long-term stability and health of society?

 

[GeographyDude]

And on the subject of powerful people being immature . . .

Don Regan was Pres. Reagan’s Treasury Secretary for 1st term and his chief-of-staff the first two years of the 2nd.

He was going to be pushed out due to Iran Contra, management style rather than wrongdoing was to be blamed. His leaving was leaked, maybe from Nancy’s office.

Yes, Nancy didn’t get along with him and thought her husband was slow in getting rid of him.

Pres. Reagan apologized to him for the leak and asked him to stay on till the new guy got his footing.

and . . .

Reagan

From the two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, bestselling historian, and author of Our First Civil War—and "the rare academic historian who can write like a bestselling novelist" (USA Today)—comes an irresistible portrait of an underestimated politician whose pragmatic leadership and steadfast...

books.google.com

My goodness gracious, I think if someone with an important job asked me to stay on to help with the transition, I’d really try to find a way.

And it gets worse!

And a little over a year later, Don Regan wrote a book and he knew he could hurt Reagan the most by going after Nancy, and that’s what he did. And that’s how Nancy’s belief in astrology came to public attention.

 

[GeographyDude]

“ . . The problem: Regan took the exactly opposite approach of Baker, putting his emphasis on the ‘chief’ in the title and not the ‘of staff.’ Over time Regan was given to boasting to reporters of his power and his ties to the President. . ”

“ . . And with that the fired Chief of Staff stalked out of the White House never to return. The two men never spoke again. . ”

In general, Generals do well as WH chiefs-of-staff | Jeffrey Lord

The Mooch is gone, John Kelly is in. Here's why that's a good sign.

www.pennlive.com

I love that word and image— “stalked.” You can really see the man walking out. (and yes, I slightly increased the size of the text)

And this is the guy who was CEO of Merill Lynch during most of the 1970s, and in 1981 became President Reagan’s Secretary of the Treasury? I guess so.

 

[GeographyDude]

May 16, 1988

Good Heavens! An astrologer dictating the President's schedule?

So says former White House Chief of Staff Donald Regan in an explosive book

content.time.com

Ronald Reagan said— "I would have preferred it if he decided to attack me. From what I hear, he's chosen to attack my wife, and I don't look kindly on that at all."

I think this is largely taking the high road. I’m hoping other people really criticized and condemned Don Regan. And thus the president didn’t have to.

 

[GeographyDude]

Nancy: “Sometimes I also cried when he was around.”

Nancy to Joan Quigley: “I’m scared every time he leaves the house, and I don’t think I breath until he gets home. I cringe every time we step out of a car or leave a building. I’m afraid that one of these days someone is going to shoot at him again.”

Yes, Nancy took the danger to her husband really hard.

And about her consulting astrologer Joan Quigley, well, I’ll say this— it’s better than drinking!

 

[GeographyDude]

Reagan fired the striking air traffic controllers on Wednesday, August 5, 1981.

30 Years Ago: The Day the Middle Class Died

From time to time, someone under 30 will ask me, "When did this all begin, America's downward slide?" They say they've heard of a time when working people could raise a family and send the kids to college on just one parent's income (and that college in states like California and New York was...

www.commondreams.org

Well, first off, look at those great late ‘70s, now early ‘80s hairstyles, beard styles, mustache styles, as well as eye glasses.

This is filmmaker Michael Moore taking a strong pro-union stance.

And I think he generally makes a good point. The rest of corporate America took it as a sign that it was now socially acceptable to play hardball with unions.

 

[GeographyDude]

“ . . late 1985, Saudi Arabia abandoned its strategy of propping up prices, and instead began increasing production in order to increase market share. By July 1986, the average per-barrel free on board (FOB) price for OPEC crude oil had dropped to $9.85 from $23.29 in December 1985, . . ”

Oil: The 30-Year Anniversary of the 1986 Collapse - Oil & Gas 360

The 1986 collapse in oil prices sent shock waves through the oil and gas industry. 30 years later, the story is similar, but much has changed.

www.oilandgas360.com

Although this hurt oil-producing states such as Texas and Louisiana, a price of $9.85 helped the overall U.S. economy.

And in a similar way, although it hurt oil-producing nations such as the Soviet Union, cheap oil in the mid-1980s helped the overall world economy.