Reagan’s reputation on economic issues if no assassination attempt?

[GeographyDude]

Ron, Jr. said his father was never the same after the March 30, 1981, assassination attempt. And Nancy, who tended to be a worrier anyway, had her weight drop from 112 pounds to 100 pounds, and worried for his physical safety pretty much the entire rest of the presidency.

But politically . . .

The assassination attempt and Reagan’s grace under pressure, such as the quips he made at the hospital, helped a great deal. More than anything else, this is what made the teflon president.

Specifically on economic issues, but on others issues also if you wish, what is President Reagan’s reputation without this happening?

 

[overoceans]

Ron, Jr. said his father was never the same after the March 30, 1981, assassination attempt. And Nancy, who tended to be a worrier anyway, had her weight drop from 112 pounds to 100 pounds, and worried for his physical safety pretty much the entire rest of the presidency.

But politically . . .

The assassination attempt and Reagan’s grace under pressure, such as the quips he made at the hospital, helped a great deal. More than anything else, this is what made the teflon president.

Specifically on economic issues, but on others issues also if you wish, what is President Reagan’s reputation without this happening?

GeoDude:

Are you positing that the absence of an assassination means Reagan has different policies, and hence a different reputation?

Or that he keeps the same policies, but his image is still interpreted through a different lens?

Either way, I wouldn't see much difference. I think RR is gonna have the same policies no matter what, given that he pretty much embodied an entire ideology. And as for his image, from what I recall of the '84 election, he was stratosphetically popular, but the shooting only played a minor part in that. It certainly didn't hurt, but I don't think it was the driving-force behind all the hagiography, either.

But there might be a difference on Iran-Contra, if a non-shot Reagan is more mentally alert, and possibly pays more attention to what his underlings are up to. (That's assuming he would have objected to all the shady dealings had he known about them. YMMV on that one.)

 

[GeographyDude]

. . . from what I recall of the '84 election, he was stratosphetically popular, but the shooting only played a minor part in that. . .

I agree. I was 21 in 1984, and I don’t remember a single Reagan commercial talking about the shooting. They mainly talked about America being back economically, and presumably in other ways as well. And at least one commercial that Reagan took the Soviets seriously, and Mondale may or may not.

But . . .

In terms of what people remember, I think Reagan’s grace under pressure was a really big deal. Plus, Reagan got a standing ovation when he spoke at a joint session of Congress about a month later.

Yes, he was stratosphetically popular in American terms. But I suppose we should point out for our friends overseas that Reagan got 59% of the vote in 1984. Various incumbent presidents worldwide have certainly done better than this.

With Iran Contra, Reagan had written in the margin of a report, mum’s the word, So he knew what was going on.

 

[Vidal]

Yes, he was stratosphetically popular in American terms. But I suppose we should point out for our friends overseas that Reagan got 59% of the vote in 1984. Various incumbent presidents worldwide have certainly done better than this.

Apples and oranges. Johnson's landslide was 61% - there's a limit in American politics because of our landscape/culture around politics.

 

[GeographyDude]

Rawhide Down

A Washington Post Notable Nonfiction Book for 2011A Richmond Times Dispatch Top Book for 2011A minute-by-minute account of the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan, to coincide with the thirtieth anniversaryOn March 30, 1981, President Ronald Reagan was just seventy days into his first term...

books.google.com

The author quotes David Broder to the effect that people really admired Reagan’s courage, humor, and grace in the immediate hours following the assassination attempt.

 

[GeographyDude]

Reagan, Obama and the Myth of the Teflon Presidency

Last Sunday marked the centennial of Ronald Reagan’s birth. The anniversary occasioned numerous tributes and remembrances, most of which noted Reagan’s celebrated skills as the “Great Communicator…

sites.middlebury.edu

So, that’s it, a blip at the beginning of his presidency? Which was pretty much used up by the end of the first year.

Yes, but —

per David Broder, people believing that Reagan had good motives (or at the very least, lacked bad motives) kept him in good stead for his entire presidency.

 

[overoceans]

David Broder quote:

As long as people remember the hospitalized president joshing his doctors and nurses - and they will remember- no critic will be able to portray Reagan as a cruel or callous or heartless man.

The punk rock band Jodie Foster's Army were apparently up to the challenge.

 

[overoceans]

And somewhat less tastelessly, the cartoonist Gary Trudeau, pretty much about as mainstream as you can get, specialized in portraying Reagan as too stupid to understand how evil and callous his policies were, eg. an aide reads Ron a list of atrocities commited by the contras, including rape and murder, and Reagan replies with "Gosh, I can't believe how much they remind me of our very own Founding Fathers."

Not to mention Trudeau's musical Rap Master Ronnie, with the number about homeless African Americans being cleared from the area around the White House: "One Less N***** For The President To See".

 

[TheHandsomeBrute]

And somewhat less tastelessly, the cartoonist Gary Trudeau, pretty much about as mainstream as you can get, specialized in portraying Reagan as too stupid to understand how evil and callous his policies were, eg. an aide reads Ron a list of atrocities commited by the contras, including rape and murder, and Reagan replies with "Gosh, I can't believe how much they remind me of our very own Founding Fathers."

Not to mention Trudeau's musical Rap Master Ronnie, with the number about homeless African Americans being cleared from the area around the White House: "One Less N***** For The President To See".

His policies weren't evil...


If you seriously think it's evil you really need to read up what has happened the last 120 years again.

 

[overoceans]

His policies weren't evil...


If you seriously think it's evil you really need to read up what has happened the last 120 years again.

Well, in any event, Gary Trudeau thought his policies were pretty horrible, and wasn't shy about saying so in Doonesbury. I mentioned that as a retort to Broder's claim that, as a result of the assassination attempt, nobody would portray Reagan in an overly negative light.

 

[GeographyDude]

David Broder quote:

As long as people remember the hospitalized president joshing his doctors and nurses - and they will remember- no critic will be able to portray Reagan as a cruel or callous or heartless man.

The punk rock band Jodie Foster's Army were apparently up to the challenge.

I’m sure they were!

And as someone who’s discovered, or rediscovered, heavy metal in my 50s, I do appreciate a wide variety of music.

 

[GeographyDude]

And somewhat less tastelessly, the cartoonist Gary Trudeau, pretty much about as mainstream as you can get, specialized in portraying Reagan as too stupid to understand how evil and callous his policies were, eg. an aide reads Ron a list of atrocities commited by the contras, including rape and murder, and Reagan replies with "Gosh, I can't believe how much they remind me of our very own Founding Fathers."

His policies weren't evil...


If you seriously think it's evil you really need to read up what has happened the last 120 years again.

Well, in any event, Gary Trudeau thought his policies were pretty horrible, and wasn't shy about saying so in Doonesbury. I mentioned that as a retort to Broder's claim that, as a result of the assassination attempt, nobody would portray Reagan in an overly negative light.

Supporting regimes that murder and rape with money and weapons, at times just to signal to the Soviets how tough and committed we were, and at times for perception just for the sake of domestic politics, I mean, if anything is evil, that might be a candidate.

But not just Reagan.

All through the cold war, we propped up and supported a shit ton of terrible dictators. Pretty everyone except the avowed communists. And . . . I wish it had been different.

 

[Johnrankins]

The assassination attempt had little to do with it. All he had to do is not be Jimmy Carter. Not having a "Carter-like" presidency was enough for him to win in a landslide.

 

[Bob in Pittsburgh]

Even Mondale in the 1984 debates conceded that Reagan had improved the country's self image. The assassination was part of it but it went beyond that. The Teflon effect was definitely there, Reagan had no idea what was going on in the White House basement with Iran-Contra. He should have been impeached. Nixon or Clinton would have been if it occurred on their watch.

 

[GeographyDude]

The assassination attempt had little to do with it. All he had to do is not be Jimmy Carter. Not having a "Carter-like" presidency was enough for him to win in a landslide.

After he almost lost the 1968 New Hampshire Democratic Primary to Eugene McCarthy, LBJ announced that he was going to concentrate on a peace deal in Vietnam and not seek another term.

So, if we look at Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, that’s four failed presidencies in a row.

Carter was a complicator, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[GeographyDude]

In real life, Reagan supported and signed:

a 264 billion dollar TAX CUT in 1981, and​

a 57 billion dollar TAX INCREASE in 1982.​

If he’s less popular in ‘81, the tax cut is probably less, and thus less need for a tax increase the following year. And therefore, the overall policy is less herky jerky, and that’s probably a good thing.

The abbreviation for the 1982 tax increase is TEFRA.

Higher Taxes: Will The Republicans Cry Wolf Again?

History, hypocrisy and Obama's first budget.

www.forbes.com

 

[Johnrankins]

After he almost lost the 1968 New Hampshire Democratic Primary to Eugene McCarthy, LBJ announced that he was going to concentrate on a peace deal in Vietnam and not seek another term.

So, if we look at Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, that’s four failed presidencies in a row.

Carter was a complicator, nothing more, nothing less.

Carter took it to a whole new level. Outside Vietnam Johnson's term was pretty successful, same with Nixon outside of Watergate and Watergate really didn't effect Joe Sixpack in his daily life. Carter didn't have a single major success his entire presidency. It was just one huge failure.

 

[GeographyDude]

National Debt as % of GDP

This is kind of “the book” on Reagan — that he talked about balanced budgets during the campaign, but instead ran deficits. And that criticism is generally true.

Voodoo Economics, and the National Debt Takes off Again

Watch G H W Bush call Reagan's supply-side economics "Voodoo" then deny it when he's Reagan's VP.

zfacts.com

Next issue, I’d like to see how much of Reagan’s deficits came from continuing and in fact expanding on Carter’s military build up, and how much of it came from tax cuts.

 

[GeographyDude]

. . . Reagan had no idea what was going on in the White House basement with Iran-Contra. He should have been impeached. Nixon or Clinton would have been if it occurred on their watch.

There’s a note from his Nat’l Security guy Bud McFarlane in which Reagan wrote on the back, “Mum’s the word”

President Reagan

Twenty-five years after Ronald Reagan became president, Richard Reeves has written a surprising and revealing portrait of one of the most important leaders of the twentieth century. As he did in his bestselling books President Kennedy: Profile of Power and President Nixon: Alone in the White...

books.google.com

So, I think he did know what was going on.

 

[GeographyDude]

Carter took it to a whole new level. Outside Vietnam Johnson's term was pretty successful, same with Nixon outside of Watergate and Watergate really didn't effect Joe Sixpack in his daily life. Carter didn't have a single major success his entire presidency. It was just one huge failure.

Thank you for taking a strong view and putting it out there. But, what about:

1) Carter getting the ball rolling on deregulation such as airlines, trucking, and telecom, and

2) Energy policy, even though ol’ Jimmy didn’t achieve his wildest dreams, he did make some progress.