Re-introduction of the Merchant Aircraft Carrier...

loughery111

Banned
Hence my suggestion of using soldiers. Which also avoids that awkward "why the hell am I paying taxes when I have to pay for my own protection on top of that?" moment on the part of shipping company owners.



Exactly. Even a "second-rate" or reliable "third-rate" military could do this - I´m thinking of South Korea or Taiwan for example, since a lot of freighters seem to be theirs to begin with. But this is probably an international matter anyway.

ROKA? Second-rate? Um...

EDIT: CalBear already took you to task on that one, now that I finished the thread.
 
Close, but no cigar...

The whole idea of air-portable guards with air support is to be a deterrent of overwhelming force which can be used at the time - not be too late and off-target. Air and naval patrols from land bases don't work. I'm looking at a modernised version of the East India Company attitude. Going from ship to ship (a) reduces costs and (b) gives local scouting and air cover.

Frankly, anybody carrying RPGs and AKs into a shipping lane deserves to be sunk on sight. You can't pussyfoot round the pirate question. Even Captain Jack Sparrow would agree that point.

And I am quite willing to compromise with Hueys or some similar attack heli.
 

Cook

Banned
Frankly, anybody carrying RPGs and AKs into a shipping lane deserves to be sunk on sight. You can't pussyfoot round the pirate question.

Shoot on sight’s all a bit legally questionable to say the least, but having a team on board armed with a 50 cal. Wouldn’t be a bad option, able to fire warning shots at approaching boarding craft while they are still well out of RPG and AK range wouldn’t be a bad option.
 

loughery111

Banned
The whole idea of air-portable guards with air support is to be a deterrent of overwhelming force which can be used at the time - not be too late and off-target. Air and naval patrols from land bases don't work. I'm looking at a modernised version of the East India Company attitude. Going from ship to ship (a) reduces costs and (b) gives local scouting and air cover.

Frankly, anybody carrying RPGs and AKs into a shipping lane deserves to be sunk on sight. You can't pussyfoot round the pirate question. Even Captain Jack Sparrow would agree that point.

And I am quite willing to compromise with Hueys or some similar attack heli.

The point everyone raises is that using aircraft suffers from the following problems:

1. It's too slow to arm, fuel, and launch in time to react to pirates on fast-moving small craft.
2. It's not remotely economical for a shipping corporation to routinely assign Harriers or even helicopters to freighters or tankers.
3. It's vast, vast overkill in a campaign where the "pirates" use skiffs and speedboats, and carry AK-47's and RPG's.
4. There are countless better (more economical, more effective, less prone to friendly fire) alternatives, beginning with hiring security teams from Western contractors or second-line militaries.

There's no reason to use aircraft, at all. If a company is opting for armed response, they're going to either hire a crew with combat training and experience, train their own people similarly, or sign up a contractor to give their vessels small security teams. Nothing more would be needed to drive off "pirate squadrons" of a dozen men and three speedboats.
 

Bearcat

Banned
Even an anti-tank guided missile is probably overkill for this threat.

Whats that toy the marines have? The Mark 19 (IIRC) Automatic Grenade launcher. 2 of those and two M2HBs.

"I have your boarding pass right here, Mofos..."
 
Yup. Aircraft are pricey, not just in themselves, their maintenance, and their equipment but in their CREW.

I can fire a rifle competently and would be a net positive asset for a crew-served weapon such as a NATO-type MG, AGL, or light mortar. I'd just get in the way of a helicopter ground crew and I'm an engineer in the aircraft industry! We're talking a massive skills disparity.
 
Escort carriers may be better more as a substitute for conventional aircraft carriers. Britain is scrapping the Invincible class and building two white elophants for which there will be no aircraft for some time. Wouldn't a few escort carriers provide sufficient air cover at a considerable less cost and with harriers?
 
Even an anti-tank guided missile is probably overkill for this threat.

Whats that toy the marines have? The Mark 19 (IIRC) Automatic Grenade launcher. 2 of those and two M2HBs.

Wouldn't even need that.

Simply put a half dozen reasonably skilled guys on every ship passing through the piracy zone and arm them with M16's, AR10's and Milkor MGL's and your problem's solved.
 
Isn't 2nd line in the USMC song about attacking Barbary pirates? There's your answer, attack the pirates at home and add a line to the Marines' song. Job done!
 
As long as these merchant aircraft carriers are launching helos I think they would be extremely effective for quick response to pirate attacks, but I think giving them fighter planes would be over kill.
 
Harriers are out of the question. It's not just price, but there is very specialized training involved (unlike what was in that one movie). Better off with just a helicopter carrier.
 

Cook

Banned
The Australian Newspaper said:
INSURERS in London are setting up a private fleet of armed patrol boats to stamp out Somali piracy in the Gulf of Aden, but a US military commander has warned there is no naval solution to the problem.

Admiral Robert Willard, head of the 300,000-troop US Pacific Command, said yesterday the Somali pirates were skirting international pressure in the Gulf of Aden by moving deeper into Asian waters, and that the only fix would be to restore stability in the African nation.

He voiced exasperation at years of naval efforts to stem the flow of pirates from Somalia, which has been effectively without a central government for two decades.

"It's remarkable that 28 nations combining their maritime forces together in the Gulf of Aden have not been able to defeat this challenge," Admiral Willard told the Asia Society on a visit to Washington. He said the pirates were becoming a menace in southern India and as far away as the South China Sea.

Admiral Willard said joint action by Southeast Asian nations had all but eliminated the piracy that once plagued the Malacca Strait - a vital route for the oil that powers Asia's largest economies - but the Somalian problem could be solved only in Somalia. "I don't think you're ever going to defeat this threat at the far extremes of their operations on the sea lanes," he said. "Rather, you have to go to the centres of gravity - the source on land in the Horn of Africa - and put a stop to it there."

Donna Hopkins, the senior US State Department official on counter-piracy, agrees: "The problem is not going to go away until Somalia is fixed.

"It is an artefact of an ungoverned space with a long coastline in a region of fragile governments that's located on a critical trade route, through which 40 per cent of the world's energy passes," she said. "So it's a perfect storm."

However, insurers are weary of making massive payout and are taking the naval solution into their own hands - with the support of shipowners, freight operators, governments and navies. Leading figures in the London insurance industry have been working for two years on the Convoy Escort Program, which aims to provide protection for tankers and reduce the cost of insuring shipping operations. Giles Noakes, chief maritime security officer of the Baltic and International Maritime Council, said he would brief US politicians in Washington next week.

One of the key architects of the program is Sean Woollerson, a partner in the marine, oil and gas division at Jardine Lloyd Thompson, a leading Lloyd's broker for companies seeking insurance protection, particularly for war risks and kidnap and ransom.

"It has taken an extraordinary amount of hard work and effort over the past two years, but we hope we're about 70 per cent of the way there," Mr Woollerson said yesterday.

Under the plan, a non-profit association involving private and public sector members would be set up. It would control a fleet of 18 vessels, each with a fixed gun position and an armed crew authorised to engage pirates in battle.

Each vessel would carry eight armed security personnel and four additional crew, as well as inflatable speedboats known as "Ribs" that could be dispatched into combat if the tankers they were protecting came under attack. Although managed separately, the fleet would be under the operational control of the relevant national navy and the crew would have to conform to international rules on combat and engagement.

The pirates seem to be growing ever better organised and more capable. So-called mother ships are now venturing more than 1600km out to sea armed with AK-47s, rocket-propelled grenades and grappling hooks.

Sustaining themselves for weeks while they search for vulnerable vessels, the pirates communicate with commanders onshore via satellite phone, receiving information from networks of contacts watching the narrow shipping lane through the Gulf of Aden.

US officials do not deny that information on shipping movements may also be leaking from international commercial centres such as Lloyd's of London and the Baltic Exchange.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...o-target-pirates/story-e6frg6so-1226008393607

Life immitating art to some extent?
;)
 
As I understand it part of the problem came from illegal fishing of Somalian waters when the regular Somalian government went down and was unable to protect its waters.

So, along with protecting ships international naval forces should also keep out the illegal fishermen. Eventually the Somalian fishing stocks should be restored and they can go back to making a living off of fishing.
 
Heck, I'm not going to attack a ship that contains ONE Ghurka!

Now that you mention it, they might be ideal. Ghurkas are some seriously tough troops, don't mind getting their hands dirty, have a long history of working with the UK which has a major interest in anti-piracy ops, all while still being far enough outside the core 1st world that they'd be fairly cheap to hire. Not sure how many Ghurka units there are nowadays but historically they supported multiple regiments, so providing one for anti-piracy ops should be doable.


every once in a blue moon I get a glimpse of news of UK cutting back on Gurkha units... they are a freaking international treasure.

anyhow, yeah, a force comprised of Gurkhas with appropriate weaponry and some sweet military-grade hovercraft and a half-dozen A-10 Warthogs for Ultimate Back-up would make the area cleaner than a brand-new katana.

if a bunch of the target-worthy boats each got several gurkhas on board, that would likely handle 99% of any ship-jacking efforts. an A-10 or nearby staffed hovercraft would slice off anything more threatening.
 
Yes, I'm sure going pirate hunting would be fun but really, does it solve the problem of the poverty which caused it? Until Somalia and other countries like it have decent government the problem will always be there.
 
there are some operators offering specialised tours where you can go pirate hunting-options include assorted anti materiel rifles, machine guns etc...so there you go.

Oh and a strange but true....there is a certain ship in the RMAS fleet that is used by some very specialised gentlemen who like to go swimming a lot. Said ship was in a region known for piracy...imagine the poor chaps suprise when they attempted to attack Newton (whoops) only to find a squadron (well ok maybe slightly less) of that certain unit embarked and all kitted up...nasty eh?
 
there are some operators offering specialised tours where you can go pirate hunting-options include assorted anti materiel rifles, machine guns etc...so there you go.

Oh and a strange but true....there is a certain ship in the RMAS fleet that is used by some very specialised gentlemen who like to go swimming a lot. Said ship was in a region known for piracy...imagine the poor chaps suprise when they attempted to attack Newton (whoops) only to find a squadron (well ok maybe slightly less) of that certain unit embarked and all kitted up...nasty eh?
Would have liked to see the pirates faces :p. Did the pirate swim after like the russian?
 
the unit embarked on Newton are the SBS, so yup I'd be trying to get away asap....
(Newton is supposedly a trials vessel with lots of space and useful assorted kit fitted on her so she gets used for all sorts of things)
 
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