Rank Insignia and Uniforms Thread

Neat rank names. Nice systematic insignia. I've been kicking around the idea of using police-sounding ranks as part of a military force. How did you decide which police sounding ranks align with which OF level? It's a similar issue that Marc had in adopting modern Quebec police uniform to an independent Quebec military.

The premise of mine was that NASA and other space exploration adopt uniforms for ease of transfers from military personnel, while emphasizing using civilian sounding rank names to emphasize that they are peaceful. I was thinking that maybe one branch would be the TSA-like organization that uses police ranks. Eventually their mission to patrol launch sites and inspect launch materials evolves into inspecting things in orbit, and once war breaks out, they become a real military. I see that you are using police like ranks for a very different thematic reason, because you're emphasizing that this is a dystopia where the National Guard is a paramilitary force that's involved in policing.

I just looked at a bunch of OTL police rank systems, picked the names I wanted and just mixed and matched until I got the combination I liked
 
Some of the service and campaign ribbons of the United States Uniformed Services from Through A Mirror, Darkly

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Why are the wars named after classical Greek characters? Are those names of locations (planets, colonies)? How long have they kept up the tradition of naming wars this way? I can see military campaigns having that convention easily for a couple decades.
 
Why are the wars named after classical Greek characters? Are those names of locations (planets, colonies)? How long have they kept up the tradition of naming wars this way? I can see military campaigns having that convention easily for a couple decades.

The names are for planets. Homer, Virgil, Polyphemus, etc.
 
just a general train of thoughts: what are the various impacts that a future space setting have on uniforms ? I'm thinking for example off the fact that if space ship still functioned with a zero-g environment and had more then one class of uniforms, you couldn't have any elements that might easily fly off or move around too easily either harming someone or making him look ridiculous.

Another thought is the type of ranks you might see emerging. Lower ones might stay the same (regimental and company levels) but there might be a need for an expansion at the top with need of officers permanently in control of units that represent continents, planets or star systems
 
justwhat are the various impacts that a future space setting have on uniforms ?

Hapsburg has put a lot of thought into ranks for a very large military. He adds a lot of higher officer ranks, and no higher enlisted ranks. He can explain more of his thoughts on the matter, if he thought of some being equivalent to Commander of the Pacific, and others as equivalent to Commander of the Solar System. The limiting factor is that most people only have about 40 years to move up in rank, so everyone above a certain level is about as experienced.

My two cents on ranks:
I think it will be a long time before any enlisted people are in space crews. Currently, a pilot is at least an Army First Lieutenant level, and new astronauts tend to be Majors or Lt Colonels.

My two cents on zero-G uniforms:
I think about having patches instead of pointy pins, but maybe that's not a big deal. Looking ridiculous is a good point, so you won't want flappy bits. No ties, hats, or long cords. I see pictures that a lot of astronauts where shirts and pants or shorts, so apparently they don't need to where jumpsuits. Keeping your top and your pants separate makes going to the bathroom less undignified, and it helps you have the gravitas of a uniform. Lots of zippers and velcro, which is true of ground forces already. Big heavy boots would be bad because you'll kick your comrade in the head. A lot of astronauts wear their socks. In Space Cadet, Heinlein described very thin shoes that you can feel through. I assume backpacks and whatnot would be discouraged on board a space ship because of their bulk, but people do need to carry things around sometimes. I think of orange as a color worn by space forces. It improves your visibility when you're on a space walk, and makes it easier to find your body if you die. If we have any interstellar states, that probably means that we have rockets that can sustain 1G acceleration for years on end, so at that point zero-G is only an issue in emergency situations.
 

Hapsburg

Banned
Hapsburg has put a lot of thought into ranks for a very large military. He adds a lot of higher officer ranks, and no higher enlisted ranks. He can explain more of his thoughts on the matter, if he thought of some being equivalent to Commander of the Pacific, and others as equivalent to Commander of the Solar System. The limiting factor is that most people only have about 40 years to move up in rank, so everyone above a certain level is about as experienced.
Keep in mind, in my setting humans live longer by at least fifty years compared to now, sometimes up to 200 years of age if one takes care of oneself. So a person can acquire more experience over the course of a longer career.
Also keep in mind that the CGU is coming off the heels of six hundred years of semi-feudal aristocracy. Certain social classes were raised with the expectation of being officers, commanders, and such. Some were inducted into the military at an early age, some as young as 16. The CGU is more egalitarian, but there is an establishment of people who were trained their whole lives for very high-level military careers. Even that being said, the CGU changes things dramatically; there are more generals and admirals in their forties and fifties as time goes by, motivated and ideological officers who cut their teeth in the Great War. Adding to that, at a certain level Generals and Marshals really become more like office managers. A young manager can be just as effective as a very old one, with the right combination of initiative, experience, and education.

Now, as far as uniforms, I agree. Space uniforms will be very cut-down, rugged, practical. At least for duty uniforms, they'll lack adornment and probably have zip or velcro fastening. Nothing that can easily break off and get stuck in vents or damage equipment. Service/dress uniforms might be a different story, and will invariably depend on where Space military derives from. Air Forces are most likely. Though in my story setting, the militarisation of space piggybacks off of naval aviation and ballistic missile submarines and so gets the Space Navy treatment.

Your point on ranks make sense with the understanding that spacecraft crews will be small. Commander, pilot, and a third key so-to-speak. But the larger a spacecraft and the longer the missions between dockings, the more skilled technicians you might need to perform the dirty work of maintenance on extended voyages. And that is just with spacecraft themselves, to say nothing of ground forces that happen to simply be transported by spacecraft. Enlisted men are always going to make up the bulk of ground forces, in any branch.
 
The United Martian Communes militia was mostly made to fill the gap between regular army and provide a pool of veteran soldiers to recomplete units. However, since none of their officer passed through the military school, the high command feared that some of the officers could be ''counter-revolutionnary'' and cause mutiny so they decided to include political officers, who were generally member of an approved socialist organisation, in each units. The official reason was however to ''inspire and encourage the mens and womens''.
Quickly this proved to be a disaster, this blurried the chain of command and bickering reduced to efficiency even in the middle of combat. Until the high command could find and implement a solution, most of the militia had been brought in second line and used against low-level threat such as resistant, becoming effectively an over-glorified military police.
mars milice.png
 
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The United Martian Communes, the unions of the workers from all the colonies. If diversity is celebrated and respected, it cause problems when all the colonies have to work togethers, like in a unified defense force. Esperento was chosen as the governmental and universal language, every soldiers having to learn it to exchange with their fellow privates and officers.
The United Martian Communes Army is the land defense forces, due to the lack of professional soldiers and officers on the colonies after their independance, its birth have been long and difficult, forcing the high command to implement a militia to fill the gap.
The officers have to pass through the military school were in additions of commanding class, strategic and tactic class, they have to pass the political class, to make sure that they are good adherant to the Communes doctrines.

Mars armee.png
 
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Now, as far as uniforms, I agree. Space uniforms will be very cut-down, rugged, practical. At least for duty uniforms, they'll lack adornment and probably have zip or velcro fastening. Nothing that can easily break off and get stuck in vents or damage equipment.
Do you think this will continue to be true in far future settings that have reliable artificial gravity?
 
The United Martian Communes militia


The United Martian Communes

Cool. I really like the political failures in the militia. It gives a lot of color to your setting.

Do you have an in-universe reason for having so few ranks? Small organization, or egalitarian philosophy, or ease of translating into Esperanto?

Is it easier for an enlisted soldier to become an officer than it is in modern militaries?

I have some feedback for your Esperanto.
1. Esperanto single nouns end in -o, except when they're the object of a sentence, in which case they end in -on. Kolonelon and Ĝenerala need their endings changed.
2.According to this dictionary Generalo is the military rank, and Ĝenerala just means "in general". eo.wikipedia.org uses Generalo like that . Google shows Ĝeneralo coming up in a couple places too for a rank, so it might be that they're both right. Marsano means "a person from Mars", and the right way to say "having to do with Mars" is Marsa.
3. Singular adjectives end in -a, so you should change Politiko to Politika. Majstra and Milicia might be more natural when they are coming in front of another noun, but I can't say for sure, because I know Esperanto does allow noun noun compounds under some circumstances.
4. I really liked Soldato and Miliciano as ranks. "Privato" would have been a huge English bias.
 
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Cool. I really like the political failures in the militia. It gives a lot of color to your setting.

Do you have an in-universe reason for having so few ranks? Small organization, or egalitarian philosophy, or ease of translating into Esperanto?

Is it easier for an enlisted soldier to become an officer than it is in modern militaries?

I have some feedback for your Esperanto.
1. Esperanto single nouns end in -o, except when they're the object of a sentence, in which case they end in -on. So you should change to Kolonelon and Ĝenerala need their endings changed.
2.According to this dictionary Generalo is the military rank, and Ĝenerala just means "in general". eo.wikipedia.org uses Generalo like that . Google shows Ĝeneralo coming up in a couple places too for a rank, so it might be that they're both right. Marsano means "a person from Mars", and the right way to say "having to do with Mars" is Marsa.
3. Singular adjectives end in -a, so you should change Politiko to Politika. Majstra and Milicia might be more natural when they are coming in front of another noun, but I can't say for sure, because I know Esperanto does allow noun noun compounds under some circumstances.
4. I really liked Soldato and Miliciano as ranks. "Privato" would have been a huge English bias.

-Thanks !
-Because, as it's said, of the lack of professional officers and soldiers. Almost all the organisation had to be built from the very limited pool of competant peoples left, so to be sure the Communes could be defended, the army had limited the numbre of rank to limit the need of training. It actually worked out well thanks to the small size of the Martian Communes army, small size that forced them to include a militia which dont rely on training to fill up the roles...
-Yes... and no. Yes because of their need, its still an army in construction, so every competant soldier can climb up the rank thanks to a very meritocratic attitude, the difficulty is joining the officers ranks because they are politicized. If during your service you had ''anti-revolutionnary'' opinions (perceived or real), it could prevent you to join the military school or uselessly extand your period as cadet until they are sure of your loyalty to the Communes ideals.

Thanks, I will take good notes !
 

Hapsburg

Banned
Do you think this will continue to be true in far future settings that have reliable artificial gravity?
Artificial gravity, as far as we know, can only be formed by centrifugal force (in a rotating crew section) or by the force of thrust down an axis (with "decks" arranged like a skyscraper's floors). It is prudent to plan for zero-gravity because the rotation can stop for any number of mechanical reasons, and the thrust stops whenever you cut the engine.
 
Crossposting from @Forcon's TL:

As most of you probably well know, when the U.S. fights in a major war, it creates a medal (known as a "campaign medal") for its soldiers who fought in the war to wear on their uniforms. The Vietnam War, Persian Gulf War, Iraq War, War in Afghanistan, and even the ISIS War, all have their own campaign medals.

In @Forcon's TL, the U.S. goes to war against Iran in 2018 after it appears (dubiously) that a terrorist attack in California which killed many people was supported by Iran. So, here's what a possible campaign medal for that war might look like had said war happened IRL. It would probably be called the "Iranian Campaign Medal" (the idea for it is based off of this):



Criteria:
The Iranian Campaign Medal was established by Executive Order 16375 signed by the President on 13 December 2018. It may be awarded to American military and naval personnel for participating in prescribed operations, campaigns and task forces ranging in dates from 21 March 2018 to the present.

The area of operations for these various campaigns includes the total land area and air space of Iran, and the waters and air space of the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean within 12 nautical miles of Iranian coastline.

Personnel must be members of a unit participating in, or be engaged in direct support of, the operation for 30 consecutive days in the area of operations or for 60 non-consecutive days provided this support involves entering the area of operations or meets one of the following criteria:

• Be engaged in actual combat, or duty that is equally as hazardous as combat duty, during the operation with armed opposition, regardless of time in the area of operations;

• While participating in the operation, regardless of time, is wounded or injured and requires medical evacuation from the area of operations;

• While participating as a regularly assigned aircrew member flying sorties into, out of, within, or over the area of operations in direct support of the military operations.

One bronze service star shall be worn on the ribbon for qualifying participation during an established campaigns. However, that if an individual's 30 or 60 days began in one campaign and carried over into another, that person would only qualify for the medal with one service star. The medal is not awarded without at least one service star.

The executive order provides that service members who qualify for either the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or the Armed Forces Service Medal for service in Iran between 21 March 2018 and 13 December 2018, remain qualified for those medals. However, upon application, any such member may be awarded the Iranian Campaign Medal in lieu of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or the Armed Forces Service Medal, but no Service member may be awarded more than one of these three medals for the same period of service in Iran.

The suspension ribbon for the medal's red, white, and green colors evoke the colors of the Iranian flag. The tan evokes the color of desert sand.
 
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Crossposting from @Forcon's TL:

As most of you probably well know, when the U.S. fights in a major war, it creates a medal (known as a "campaign medal") for its soldiers who fought in the war to wear on their uniforms. The Vietnam War, Persian Gulf War, Iraq War, War in Afghanistan, and even the ISIS War, all have their own campaign medals.

This is an area of military insignia that I know very little about, so I'd like you to enlighten me a bit. It looks like a realistic ribbon. I was surprised that it's not handed out to support personnel who work further from Iran, but it looks like the Iraq and Afghanistan medals have similar rules. Is that because the Global War on Terrorism medal can be awarded to people who do support work? Are your rules following rules for another campaign exactly, or are you tweaking things a bit? The Iraq and Afghanistan campaign medals show their flag twice, although the Afghanistan medal has more decorations in the middle. How did you decide to add more green, white, and red in the middle of yours?

Depending on what parts of the country the fighting happens in, the sandy color might not be favored. Iran has a lot of territory that is not desert. Pretty pictures here: https://www.quora.com/Is-Iran-a-desert
 
Some of the service and campaign ribbons of the United States Uniformed Services from Through A Mirror, Darkly

Cool stuff! Good to see more ribbons here.
The United Martian Communes, the unions of the workers from all the colonies. If diversity is celebrated and respected, it cause problems when all the colonies have to work togethers, like in a unified defense force. Esperento was chosen as the governmental and universal language, every soldiers having to learn it to exchange with their fellow privates and officers.
The United Martian Communes Army is the land defense forces, due to the lack of professional soldiers and officers on the colonies after their independance, its birth have been long and difficult, forcing the high command to implement a militia to fill the gap.
The officers have to pass through the military school were in additions of commanding class, strategic and tactic class, they have to pass the political class, to make sure that they are good adherant to the Communes doctrines.

Cool! The red and swords give them a bit of a Satanic look.

This is an area of military insignia that I know very little about, so I'd like you to enlighten me a bit. It looks like a realistic ribbon.
Why, thank you! I tried to make it look realistic as possible and noticed that a lot of U.S. campaign medals' designs and colors are based off of the flag of the country that the war is taking place in. In real life, the campaign medals are designed by the U.S. Army but are awarded to members of all branches.

I was surprised that it's not handed out to support personnel who work further from Iran, but it looks like the Iraq and Afghanistan medals have similar rules.

IIRC, with the Iraq and Afghanistan campaign medals, you actually had to be in Iraqi and Afghan territory to get it. However, with the Persian Gulf War's campaign medal, the Southwest Asia Service Medal (SASM), the rules were more lax, as it was also awarded to people who did supporting operations in the region the war occurred. The SASM was also awarded for a few years after the war ended, until 1995.

Is that because the Global War on Terrorism medal can be awarded to people who do support work? Are your rules following rules for another campaign exactly, or are you tweaking things a bit?

I just basically copied the rules from the Iraqi Campaign Medal. As far the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal is concerned, I think every active duty military person gets one after serving in an active unit for 30 days. I think it's three months in a reserve unit, if you're a reservist. It's kinda like the National Defense Service Medal in that way, you get it just for being in the military, but whereas the NDSM is instantaneous, the GWOTSM is awarded after serving for a certain (albeit short) period of time.

The Iraq and Afghanistan campaign medals show their flag twice, although the Afghanistan medal has more decorations in the middle. How did you decide to add more green, white, and red in the middle of yours? Depending on what parts of the country the fighting happens in, the sandy color might not be favored. Iran has a lot of territory that is not desert. Pretty pictures here: https://www.quora.com/Is-Iran-a-desert

I pretty much based its appearance off of the Afghan Campaign Medal and flipped the colors. Looking back, I think it would look better with some black in there somewhere. The Iraqi and Afghan campaign medals had black in them too.
 
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JJohnson

Banned
It might be in here, but the search isn't being very friendly right now. I'm writing an alternate timeline where the US and UK are rebuilding the German army after WW2 (and that of France). In this timeline the two countries flipped positions, so France started the war, and might not get an army till the early 50's. But that's beside the point.

I've got it set up to have seven uniformed services: Heer/Army, Marine/Navy, Luftwaffe/Air Force, Marineinfantrie/Marine Corps, Sanitätsdienst/Public Health Service, Küstenwache/Coast Guard, Ozeanisches und Atmosphärisches Bundesamt Federal Oceanic and Atmospheric Office.

Does anyone have some uniform templates for Germany (OTL) and the US (OTL) that could help me set something up?

I know roughly what I'm wanting to do for the alt uniforms, including no berets. There's woodland, desert, arctic, urban, and sea (multi-blue) flektarn utility uniforms; black-tie mess dress uniforms; army grays; navy/coast guard blue, air force blue, and marines would be some other color I don't know yet. Enlisted sailors would have the white and blue uniforms as in OTL. I've already changed the rank structure a little, and created new logos for the coast guard (ensign; standard) and the air force. It's a work in progress. I appreciate anyone pointing me in the right direction with some templates.
 
I'm not the best source of this. Hapsburg used to make a lot of uniforms with Nazi-era influence, and maybe he knows a source of later German uniforms. MovingTargeT has a series of future North American uniforms based on the current U.S. uniforms, but I don't know the source of any of those.
I like to look on tanoushi.deviantart.com and grand-lobster-king.deviantart.com. They do a lot of uniform artwork, and some of them are explicitly labeled as okay to use in other projects. For example there's this one that you may use with credit: http://grand-lobster-king.deviantart.com/art/W-I-P-U-S-Army-Infantry-Uniform-Timeline-551005486. Based on that template, there's this U.S. WWII one: http://grand-lobster-king.deviantart.com/art/WWII-U-S-Army-Class-A-Uniform-537535667.
 
Attached are some uniforms and insignia for the Federation of Vseslavija.


I haven't had much time to look at this yet but I'm glad someone's contributing here. I found your conworld website: http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/Vseslavija.

So this is a Pan-Slavic country. How did the countries unite?

Vseslavija has its own language. Is the language mostly based on Russian? I see there's a letter that looks like a j so it's not too Russian. You sometimes use a Й instead. Were you changing your mind?

What's the source of your ranks? I see you you have Lieutenant-Commander directly under a Major, and I don't think I've seen that before.
 
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