Randomize World War One. What would be the most interesting possibility?

Deleted member 93645

If you could "randomize" the alliances in Europe before WWI, with the same borders as OTL 1914 and the US still entering in 1917 or later (on any side), what do you think would be the most interesting, alternate possibility?

It does not have to be particularly likely or realistic, this is an extreme hypothetical. So if you think Russia/Ottomans/Austria/Greece/Serbia/Bulgaria against France/Britain/Germany/Spain/USA would be interesting, then suggest that as well.

Any possibility for three mutually hostile alliances? Or one nation taking on everyone else?
 
CECBC

CECBC

Banned
"Four Emperor's League" (Russia, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Ottoman Empire) VS the allies would be interesting to see. It would pit the more autocratic monarchies against the more democratic nations in a true clash of ideologies.
 

Deleted member 93645

CECBC said:
"Four Emperor's League" (Russia, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Ottoman Empire) VS the allies would be interesting to see. It would pit the more autocratic monarchies against the more democratic nations in a true clash of ideologies.
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I wonder if the British would even be able to strike the Ottomans, or if they would be so focused on reinforcing France and blockading the Germans that they couldn't until the US jumps in.

Would France even last a year with millions of eastern-front Germans and Austrians, and millions of Russians bolstering the German attack?
 
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CECBC

CECBC

Banned
I think a Four Emperor's League would have a good chance of winning. France would be royally screwed with an enemy that reaches from their eastern border all the way to Korea. Ottomans could do a lot more against Britain with the Russians helping them. I think Britain would be paranoid about Russia attacking India as well.
 

NOMISYRRUC

If it was the Four Emperor's v UK, France and Japan I think the Russians would concentrate their efforts on getting revenge on the Japanese.

The Austro-Hungarians want to crush Serbia and might be aided by the Ottomans who want to get the territory lost in the recent Balkan wars back, but the Russians wouldn't be pleased if they succeeded in conquering Bulgaria, Greece, Romania and Serbia between them.

I think the Italians would want to stay neutral, but might feel forced to declare war on Britain and France for fear that if they don't the Austrians and Ottomans, who have scores to settle with Italy would turn on them after they had dealt with the Balkans.

However, the war might not last long enough for the above to happen because without the Russians to fight the German Army can allocate all 98 of its infantry divisions to the western front. IIRC the French Army had 72 infantry divisions supported by 6 British and the Belgian Army. I think the Germans would have won the Battle of the Marne and even if they didn't the front line would run along the Somme-Aisne. The Germans who would be supplied with food and raw materials by the Russians would win sooner rather than later.

The peace treaty would be interesting. I have been thinking of starting a thread called Greater Belgium, where the Germans persuade the Belgians allow their army free passage so that the troop trains run all the way to the Franco-Belgian border. As a reward Belgium annexes the French Nord and Pas de Calais departments in the peace treaty, though its real objective was to weaken France by taking away one of its most industrialised regions and Belgium had to join the Zollverein. ITTL the same happens, but the territory is compensation for being invaded rather than allowing the German Army free passage.
 

Gog (♀)

I wonder actually, how many European powers would need to ally together to defeat the US. ASB becuase there's no way all of them at once could piss off the US or vice versa but I wonder still.
 

King Augeas

Gog3451 said:
I wonder actually, how many European powers would need to ally together to defeat the US. ASB becuase there's no way all of them at once could piss off the US or vice versa but I wonder still.
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Define "defeat". Because there's a world of difference between blockading the east coast, blockading both east and west coasts, and invading and occupying - yet all could be regarded as "defeats" in a subsequent peace treaty.

For example, in 1914 Britain, if undistracted by European problems, should be able to defeat the Atlantic USN, defend Canada and blockade the east coast in the short term - but defeat is only crystallised if peace is made at that point. Alternatively, the US could sit tight knowing that a serious invasion is impossible, build up her forces and wait for Britain to get fed up with a pointless unwinnable war.
 

Gog (♀)

King Augeas said:
Define "defeat". Because there's a world of difference between blockading the east coast, blockading both east and west coasts, and invading and occupying - yet all could be regarded as "defeats" in a subsequent peace treaty.

For example, in 1914 Britain, if undistracted by European problems, should be able to defeat the Atlantic USN, defend Canada and blockade the east coast in the short term - but defeat is only crystallised if peace is made at that point. Alternatively, the US could sit tight knowing that a serious invasion is impossible, build up her forces and wait for Britain to get fed up with a pointless unwinnable war.
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Like I think Britain could, but what about occupying the US? I think it would have to be-most realistically-a Britain/Germany/Austria Hungary/Italy/Japan axis. Don't think France would ally but that would help.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Alligator said:
If you could "randomize" the alliances in Europe before WWI, with the same borders as OTL 1914 and the US still entering in 1917 or later (on any side), what do you think would be the most interesting, alternate possibility?

It does not have to be particularly likely or realistic, this is an extreme hypothetical. So if you think Russia/Ottomans/Austria/Greece/Serbia/Bulgaria against France/Britain/Germany/Spain/USA would be interesting, then suggest that as well.

Any possibility for three mutually hostile alliances? Or one nation taking on everyone else?
Click to expand...

The question is which of the powers actually had a shared interest in alliances different than historical, true? So what are each powers interests?

If the Germans and Russians are willing to carve up Austria's empire, that leaves them each with a "protected" back and the Germans are free to concentrate on western/northern Europe and the Russians on the Balkans/Anatolia; and the Franco-British aren't really in a place to do much if anything about it.

Italians stay neutral, for obvious reasons.

Best,
 

Citycat

Since this thread is about a random switch and not a realistic alternative TL:

The Seven Emperors' League: Germany, Austria-Hungary, Russia, the British Empire, the Japanese Empire, the Ottoman Empire and the Italian Empire (POD: Italy conquering Ethiopia in 1896 and making their King the Emperor as Mussolini would do 50 years later) versus the Republican League of France and the United States.

In this scenario, the US occupies parts of Canada, but the France and the USA's colonial empires, and Latin America are carved up by the league. Game over.
 

severak

Victorian League: Queen Vicky's matchmaking works out a bit better and King George, Kaiser Wilhelm and Tsar Nicholas decide to divide the world between their empires, much to the chargin of the rest of the world.
 

Deleted member 93645

Crimean War 2.0: Britain, France, Ottoman Empire, Italy vs. Russia, Austria, and Germany.
 

Alternator

Call this the "France managed to piss off the US by mucking about in the American Civil War" alliances.

Germany / Russia / Italy vs. Britain / France / Austria / Japan / Ottomans, with Italy and the Ottomans as later entrants. This has the United States as a pro-Germany, pro-Russia, anti-France neutral, uninterested in joining in unless Britain forces the issue with the blockade - which might be enough to prevent the blockade entirely.

Winners: Germany, Russia, Italy, and Japan. British probably come out about even, Austria and Ottomans are broken up, and France is just hosed.
 
DracoLazarus

DracoLazarus

random swap : France is neutral, and it's US-Russia-Turkey-Italy VS Germany Austria-Hungary-UK.
France barges in at the last moment and turns the war against the Germans and Austro-Hungarians.
 
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