Ramifications of a Bloody Toledo War

We've had about three threads on this subject, but none have gotten past page one. While I understand Meepy has written a short timeline on the matter, I am curious about other possible interpretations.

The Toledo War was a virtually bloodless dispute between Michigan and Ohio over the area known as the Toledo Strip. As a result of a poor understanding of the geography of the Great Lakes, varying interpretations of law and some weird surveying both Ohio and the Territory of Michigan came to claim the area. When Michigan applied for statehood, Ohio blocked the measure by stating that Michigan's boundaries contradicted their own. The situation escalated to the point where both areas sent their soldiers to the disputed area and a team sent to settle the issue was kidnapped.

The crisis was later diffused by Jackson who gave Michigan the upper peninsula in return for accepting Ohio's ownership of Toledo.


What if, however, the situation degrades further before Jackson can intervene and the militias start firing on each other? Perhaps Ohio tries to enforce the boundary at the Harris Line (The southern extremity of Lake Michigan. Toward the end, the Ohio government started getting angry and tried to re-establish a previously rejected border.) and/or Michigan tries to re-establish the border even lower.

What does the federal government do if there is bloodshed and each side is trying to occupy the other's territory? How does this influence state disputes in the future?
 
I'm just not seeing it escalating too far, even if a few shots are fired initially and somebody gets hurt. There's just not enough at stake for any rational actors on either side to pursue an actual war.
 
I'm just not seeing it escalating too far, even if a few shots are fired initially and somebody gets hurt. There's just not enough at stake for any rational actors on either side to pursue an actual war.

What, at minimum would there have to be for the situation to escalate into a serious conflict? What would it take to spark a war?
 
What, at minimum would there have to be for the situation to escalate into a serious conflict? What would it take to spark a war?

It could become a serious conflict if the Ohioans slaughter a couple dozen Michiganders and in retaliation the Michiganders set fire to the forest around the settlements of Sylvania and Oregon and move toward the village of Toledo
 
So that brings me back to the questions in the OP. With the situation escalated to the point of an actual war, what happens? It hardly seems like a civil war because neither side is attempting to break away from the Union.

How does Jackson respond to the combatants? I am not sure if the deal that was eventually accepted in OTL would be accepted here.


How does this effect the development and settlement of the Midwest and future states?
 
So that brings me back to the questions in the OP. With the situation escalated to the point of an actual war, what happens? It hardly seems like a civil war because neither side is attempting to break away from the Union.
That's what a civil war normally is, though-- two factions fighting within a country. English Civil War, Russian Civil War, stuff like that.

This would be something Brits would point to and say "Ha! That's what should properly be called a civil war."
 
That's what a civil war normally is, though-- two factions fighting within a country. English Civil War, Russian Civil War, stuff like that.

This would be something Brits would point to and say "Ha! That's what should properly called a civil war."

That was a stupid mistake on my part. I apologize. I was thinking of the American Civil War and forgot that a civil war is usually a fight between two factions within a country. Fairly embarrassing on my part. Again sorry.


This is the last time I will bump the thread. Sorry. I just found this conflict strange and felt that there was a lot of potential for an alternate history focusing on it. It is weird to me that there have been over 200 views and very little real discussion.
 
I think Jackson would have clamped down hard on this as soon as he heard about it. I can't see him just sitting around while two states fight.
 
The upper peninsula would rightfully end up as part of Wisconsin:D

Absolutey not! That would only have happened if Michigan received the Toledo strip, and even then, Wisconsin would only have received 2/3 of the UP. Besides, the territory of Wisconsin had no claim on the UP, as the UP was never part of it. The UP had been part of Michigan since 1805. :D Now, perhaps the UP might eventually, along w/northern Wisconsin & Minnesota become a separate territory of Upper Wisconsin. ;)
 
I think my opinion on what would happen with a bloodier war can be summed up by rephrasing a statement in the OP to something more in line with what was actually going on:

The crisis was later diffused by Jackson who gave Michigan the upper peninsula in return for accepting Ohio's ownership of Toledo.
Would probably be rephrased to this:

"The crisis was later diffused when Michigan finally accepted Jackson and Congress's offer of letting them become a state if they agreed to stop claiming that strip of land. (Oh, and by the way, they could also have this small strip of wilderness land that no one really wants, as a token gesture.)"

The offer was actually initially rejected, but when Michigan Territory's government started to get into financial problems that would be resolved by money which the federal government was only offering to states, it accepted it.

Basically, eventually Michigan is going to give in and accept what the government offers them, because it can't stand on it's own, and the people aren't really going to want to resort to a full-scale civil war over this matter. Then, a decade or two later they'll find copper and iron in the UP and completely forget about the dispute entirely.

EDIT: Although I suppose if the government sides with Michigan, then it's Ohio which has to give in, and they probably have a bit more resources to support a civil conflict.

Besides, the territory of Wisconsin had no claim on the UP, as the UP was never part of it.

The Territory of Wisconsin had no claim on the UP because the Territory of Wisconsin was formed after the federal government had already assigned the remaining part of the UP to Michigan (even if Michigan wasn't willing to accept it quite yet). If that 2/3 of the UP had not been given to the State of Michigan for some reason, then it would have been part of whatever territory was formed out of the Western parts of Michigan (probably named Wisconsin Territory), and then whatever state (probably named Wisconsin) was formed out of that territory would have a claim on it.

Of course, it's still up in the air whether *Wisconsin would have included that 2/3 part of the UP. Like you said, a state formed out of Western UP, Northern Wisconsin and Northeastern Minnesota is not unlikely. But that probably depends on later developments in the Wisconsin Territory.
 
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