Railroad thread

[Shortline614]

I have a quick queston. So i'm starting to plan out my timeline, 12:01 AM: A history of the modern railroad merger movement. It features 5 major western railroads, Chicago, Milwukee & North Western, Burlington Northern, Union Pacific, Santa Fe, and Southern Pacific/Cotton Belt. I gave the Frisco to the Union Pacific, since the SLSF was the UP's major connection to the Southwest, and to balance out UP with CM&NW and BN. It also gets UP to the gulf (Mobile & Pensacola) and close to the gulf (Dallas/Fort Worth).

I'm considering either outright giving the Colorado & Southern and Fort Worth & Denver to the UP, as a condidtion of the BN merger. The more BN-Friendly option for that was to make the C&S and FW&D jointy owned between the UP and BN. Should I do this? What would you do? The C&S and FW&D were orginally the Union Pacific, Denver & Gulf Railway.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I have a quick queston. So i'm starting to plan out my timeline, 12:01 AM: A history of the modern railroad merger movement. It features 5 major western railroads, Chicago, Milwukee & North Western, Burlington Northern, Union Pacific, Santa Fe, and Southern Pacific/Cotton Belt. I gave the Frisco to the Union Pacific, since the SLSF was the UP's major connection to the Southwest, and to balance out UP with CM&NW and BN. It also gets UP to the gulf (Mobile & Pensacola) and close to the gulf (Dallas/Fort Worth).

I'm considering either outright giving the Colorado & Southern and Fort Worth & Denver to the UP, as a condidtion of the BN merger. The more BN-Friendly option for that was to make the C&S and FW&D jointy owned between the UP and BN. Should I do this? What would you do? The C&S and FW&D were orginally the Union Pacific, Denver & Gulf Railway.

If you're dead set on the UP+SLSF, the C&S/FW&D going to UP by at least 50 is what I'd recommend.

 

[TheMann]

I'd recommend the DRGW and the WP build out the proposed "Mid-Pacific Railroad" through Nevada and then down south to Los Angeles. Perhaps some trackage rights down to San Diego too? It'd be neat to have them become an early, big diesel adopter before the war since water isn't too plentiful in Nevada. From Beatty, NV they could head back east to Las Vegas over another abandoned rail-line.

I can see the WP going for that if they can raise the funds to do so, and I'll bet the Hill lines would be only too happy to provide that funding, doubly so if they can develop a more direct route between Bieber and Reno to allow GN trains a straighter shot to Los Angeles. Sierra Nevada Builder, anyone?

 

[TheMann]

@Shortline614 You could do a joint-operation arrangement for the C&S, but if you have the Union Pacific controlling the Frisco and the Missouri Pacific you end up with them having both a dominant position in the market and a position that reduces competition, neither situation one that will sit well with rival roads or the ICC.

In the position you propose, I'd be inclined to make the MoPac part of the Chicago, Milwaukee and North Western, now the Chicago, Milwaukee and Pacific. Such a situation makes a like that slugs it out with BN across the northern half of the Western US and one that would be tough competition for the others.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I can see the WP going for that if they can raise the funds to do so, and I'll bet the Hill lines would be only too happy to provide that funding, doubly so if they can develop a more direct route between Bieber and Reno to allow GN trains a straighter shot to Los Angeles. Sierra Nevada Builder, anyone?

OTOH, it does leave the issue of the Rio Grande/SP I'd build from Marysvale to LA via Cedar City, Las Vegas, and Mojave.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I'd recommend the DRGW and the WP build out the proposed "Mid-Pacific Railroad" through Nevada and then down south to Los Angeles. Perhaps some trackage rights down to San Diego too? It'd be neat to have them become an early, big diesel adopter before the war since water isn't too plentiful in Nevada. From Beatty, NV they could head back east to Las Vegas over another abandoned rail-line.

Let's also add the idea of electrics going on to this line later on.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I've been thinking about some possible places where my TL's Chessie could electrify:
- the former RDG/WM from Jersey City to Hagerstown via Allentown and Harrisburg
- the B&O from Washington DC to Clarksburg, WV/Pittsburgh, PA
- the C&O from Kenova, WV to Washington DC

 

[isayyo2]

Let's also add the idea of electrics going on to this line later on.

That could actually work out really well. The whole area would be revived with an electric line like BC Rail's Tumbler Ridge branch, not only as a bypass for the BN and WP but to revive the various mines and further invest into Potash and Lithium. Do a "steel interstate" with an electric route + Interest 11's planned northern extension and high voltage utilities. The only thing missing is water! You could either bring in nuclear desalted water to inner Nevada, which is fairly feasible but expensive at a few locations; Or, somehow negotiate for more Colorado River water for Nevada (borderline ASB). "Terraforming Nevada" could turn into a separate thread here.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I was recently thinking more about recent nuclear power innovations, and how they could maybe factor into energy renewal in my TL with the 1990s, as it takes the ideas derived from developments in nuclear-powered naval vessels.

 

[isayyo2]

I was recently thinking more about recent nuclear power innovations, and how they could maybe factor into energy renewal in my TL with the 1990s, as it takes the ideas derived from developments in nuclear-powered naval vessels.

Such as?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Such as?

For one thing, there's the idea of a Small Modular Reaction (SMR), which could be built in a factory, assembled on site, then connect with other SMRs to make a bigger power plant with less money than what a conventional nuclear power plant would require.

I've also read proposals for a kind of reactor that uses molten salt instead of water, which allows for lower pressures and reduces the risk of accidents.

 

[isayyo2]

For one thing, there's the idea of a Small Modular Reaction (SMR), which could be built in a factory, assembled on site, then connect with other SMRs to make a bigger power plant with less money than what a conventional nuclear power plant would require.

I've also read proposals for a kind of reactor that uses molten salt instead of water, which allows for lower pressures and reduces the risk of accidents.

Molten Salts and High Temp Gas Reactor are definitely the way to go and have been commercially viable since the late 70s, I would totally incorporate them into your stories as the 20th Century progresses. Supercritical C02 seems to be the hot thing as of now, does away with any steam boiling and the high pressure reduces plant size significantly.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Going off the idea for what to do next with my new rail TL, I was thinking that I should do the Rio Grande going west to California.

Anything you guys would like to see when I post it?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

On second thought, I decided that maybe I sould have my next big post focus on my alternate plans for a South Pennsylvania Railroad that is indeed built. I could possibly have the past that happens before my TL's 1880 take place in such a way where the TL takes on a non-chronological order. Mainly focusing on various rail lines at certain intervals.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Recently, I've also thought of some of the one-off electrics that were built for the PRR. Most notably the E2b, E3b, and E3c engines, and how they could end up being used on both my TL's PRR electrification through Pennsylvania. As well as the Southern Pacific, Milwaukee Road, Rio Grande, and New York Central.

My idea that much like in my TL, they'd go to the PRR in the early 50s. The POD for them is when the PRR decides to buy several more of each class to serve as purely freight machines, and let the GG1 stick to passenger trains for the time being. Elsewhere, the Rio Grande's new electrification from Denver to Grand Junction finds itself in the need for more electrics beyond just the 15 "Little Joes" they had ordered built to 25 kV specifications. As such, they order several of the E3b engines for use on said route.

Only a few years later, and Southern Pacific decides to electrify their Tejon Pass Cutoff route. For the purpose of hauling these trains, all three classes are acquired for use on heavy freights through the mountains to Glendale and on to Colton. As SP electrification makes it way east and north thanks to California's environmental plans, so too go these three classes. Further electrification goes to the Pacific Harbor Belt Railway, which was created in 1932 to link the city of LA and Long Beach via the Alameda Corridor.

The success of these three electrics convinces GE to build the EPH-60 (based on @Lucas' idea), for use on heavier mainlines like the Milwaukee Road. Soon however, the ATSF decides to electrify their line from Barstow to San Diego via LA, and the line through the Central Valley to Oakland. Naturally, the EPH-60 is bought for those lines.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Also forgot to mention my TL's GN buying some of the E3b engines for use on the Stevens Pass, and said engines surviving into BN days until the early 1980s.

 

[isayyo2]

@Andrew Boyd Do you think using the smaller units will push the big engines like GG1 and EL-2B out of service faster?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

@Andrew Boyd Do you think using the smaller units will push the big engines like GG1 and EL-2B out of service faster?

Not too likely. After all, the GG1 survived into the 80s for a good reason. Whereas something like the EL-2b would still have use for the heaviest freights.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I also thought of adding some railroads I made for this thread to the new TL.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/challenge-replace-real-railroads-with-fictional-model-railroads.487628/

Any specific ones you would all like to see?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

For my TL's Santa Fe, I was thinking they'd electrify in my TLs mid-70s. Thanks in no small part to the need to remain competitive with the Southern Pacific/Rock Island alliance, as well as its desire to reap the financial rewards enjoyed by railroads that take part in California's environmental ambitions. Since they'd still be running their own passenger trains until the 1996 of my TL, I could see the ATSF painting these electrics in the Warbonnet scene.

As for their range of operation, I could see them running between Trinidad, CO and Santa Fe, NM in my TL. As well as on all ATSF lines west of Barstow, CA. Including the Centra Valley lines and along the coast to San Diego.