Railroad thread

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Like SP #3661, Santa Fe Berkshire #4103 survived by virtue of being the first engine to haul a Santa Fe freight through the Alameda Corridor in the LA Area. Today, it is likewise preserved at Long Beach alongside the 3661.

Rio Grande Northern #1702 is resting in Blood Yard at Las Vegas, NV. The yard was named after Utah govenor Henry H. Blood, who actively collaborated with the Rio Grande to extend the Marysvale line down to Cedar City and St. George.

A pair of D&RGW ALCO PAs lead the San Diego Zephyr near the Utah - Arizona state line on March 3, 1958. This train was created in 1953 to serve as a San Diego counterpart to the California Zephyr, with Southern Pacific handling the train from Las Vegas to San Diego.

A standard-gauge Consolidation runs light engine along the Chili Line shortly after the conversion to Standard Gauge was completed in August 1938. Upgrades after the war included a second track and the additional upgrading of the ATSF interchange at Santa Fe, NM.

A ML-4000 rests at the Rio Grande yard in Boise City, OK. The town was the midway point between Trinidad and Amarillo, TX. The line, much like the rebuild of the Chili Line, was constructed in the 1930s was a single-track line in collaboration with local WPA chapters. However, the C&S eventually saw its presence as a chance to get cargo heading west from Texas shuttled to its final destination more quickly.

Western Pacific #257 is shown here with a freight a Bieber, CA on a line that the WP acquired from the Great Northern in 1935.

WP Mikado #301 rests in the yard at Carson City, NV. It will soon take a freight south over new and ex-Tinopah & Tidewater tracks to the ATSF interchange at Barstow, CA.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I was recently think that in my TL's Amtrak Midwest, I could have one mainline run from Chicago to Peoria. At Peoria, then line then splits to run to Des Moines via Galesburg, the Quad Cities, and Cedar Rapids. Whereas the line to St. Louis runs south via Springfield.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I was thinking about how the Steel Interstate should apply when the high-speed rail era of my TL comes.

Obviously, Amtrak will need its own ROWs where possible. Though due to some congestion issues, I could see the Steel Interstate method being used particularly on the NYC's Chicago - New York line via South Bend, Toledo, Cleveland, and Buffalo.

Or, the mainlines could be extended to four tracks total - one for freights on the NYC, and the other for Amtrak trains. Thus allowing Amtrak to avoid host railroads where congestion is stronger in my TL thanks to stronger urban centers and the fact that highways have more tolls ITTL for the sake of maintenance funds.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

*Live film footage from 1961 of PRR CEO STUART T. SAUNDERS, as he speaks about the donation of K4 PACIFIC 5491 to the Illinois Railway Museum in Union.*

NARRATOR (James Earl Jones)
In 1956, Businessman Stuart T. Saunders joined the Pennsylvania Railroad through its subsidiary Norfolk & Western. The man had gained a well-earned reputation for looking at how to turn a seemingly backwater rail line into one of the nation's most successful mainlines. Now, it was time for Mr. Saunders to do the same to an even bigger, and once even prouder railroad.

*The scene cuts to a series of PRR TRAINS operating across the network. Most of these are hauled by steam engines like R2 4-8-4 KEYSTONES, K4 4-6-2 PACIFICS, M1 4-8-2 MOUNTAINS, and I1 2-10-0 DECAPODS that have clearly been cleaner in the past.*

NARRATOR
At the time, the Pennsylvania Railroad was in dire straits. High labor costs and the heavy reliance on short-haul services ate into the company's revenues. These issues were accellerated not just by the rise of the roads, but also by competition from other railroads.

EXT. MARION, OHIO - DAY
*In contrast to the PRR scenes, we see a NEW YORK CENTRAL NIAGARA and EMD E UNITS, both throughly clean and working hard on their respective loads - the Niagara on FREIGHT and the diesels a PASSENGER TRAIN. As well as a DIESEL from the newly formed Erie Lackawanna hauling a FREIGHT through the countryside.

NARRATOR
The PRR's main rivals, the efficiency-obsessed New York Central, and the smaller but smarter Erie Lackawanna had in contrast been making massive strides to improve their profits, and they were paying off. Both railroads managed to somewhat extend the lives of their still-faltering passenger services through clever marketing gimmicks. Whereas various minor lines had been abandoned to save money that would instead go to upgrading more important branch lines and of course improving mainlines.

*The scene cuts back again to Stuart T. Saunders, who is presenting a MAP of the system to the BOARD OF DIRECTORS*

NARRATOR
Stuart recognized the need for the Pennsy to, in addition to establishing its ties to the N&W via merger, also to cut down the network as much as physically possible. True to form, many major routes were axed away, so that others, like the key mainlines, could survive and flourish.

*We look down a long, unused TRACK near the PRR yards at Dayton, OH*

NARRATOR
Today, we will look at the lines that the Mighty Keystone broke off from their system, and their current functions. Wether they be:

*We look down the former ROW of the line near Lebanon, OH north to Dayton.*

NARRATOR
Rail trails - railroads that were paved over to crate pedestrian trails.

*NICKEL PLATE MIKADO #587 leads an EXCURSION TRAIN along the former South Bend Branch just north of Logansport, IN*

NARRATOR
Tourist lines, carrying happy passengers through picturesque countryside.

*A train of the Ann Arbor Railroad is running over the ex-PRR at Traverse City, MI.*

NARRATOR
Or, have found new life as other railroads.

AXED RAILS OF THE KEYSTONE, WHERE ARE THEY NOW?​

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I also thought in recent times about adding the Timken 1111 (aka NP 2626) to the IRM's roster after spending a few years on display at Canton, OH until 1991.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

@TheMann

IIRC, weren't there also a UP Challenger and a PRR K4 at the America Rails Museum at certain points?

 

[The Gunslinger]

This might have been addressed elsewhere in the thread, but do you guys have any opinion on a western terminus between Vancouver and Seattle for a Canadian transcontinental if Britain controls all of the Oregon Territory?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

This might have been addressed elsewhere in the thread, but do you guys have any opinion on a western terminus between Vancouver and Seattle for a Canadian transcontinental if Britain controls all of the Oregon Territory?

You may have to ask @TheMann, since my own TL ideas keep it as OTL.

 

[TheMann]

This might have been addressed elsewhere in the thread, but do you guys have any opinion on a western terminus between Vancouver and Seattle for a Canadian transcontinental if Britain controls all of the Oregon Territory?

The railroads will all be crossing over the same passes in any case, so OTL isn't likely to be much different.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I was thinking recently about what @TheMann and @Joe Bonkers created for Steamtown, and thought I'd give my own take using what Joe suggested for my TL. Thanks to his help, it has become something quite a bit more magnificent than what I initially imagined.

My idea for the Steamtown NHS of TTL would be that It'd occupy the former NYO&W lines in the Scranton area. Joe expanded on that idea by having the main display area at Mayfield and the main station at the former D&H station's location. A short trip would run from Mayfield to Scranton, and longer weekend trips would run from Scranton through the Catskills to Cadosia, NY and return. In addition, there are plenty of other trips on special occasions, wether they run along the Cadosia & Eastern Shortline Railroad into New Jersey or via the Erie Lackawanna's ex-DL&W or Chessie's ex-CNJ lines [1].

Most of these excursions are naturally hauled by a plethora of vintage steam engines, those being:
- Lehigh Valley K-6b Class 4-6-2 #2097
- Canadian Pacific G-3c Class 4-6-2 #2317
- New York, Ontario, & Western Y-2 Class 4-8-2 #451 [2]
- Canadian National S-1b Class 2-8-2 #3254
- Union Pacific TTT-6 Class 2-10-2 #5511
- Baldwin Locomotive Works 0-6-0 #26 [3]

The main display area in Mayfield includes many of the museum's display locomotives, those being the ones of OTL, plus:
- Union Pacific Big Boy 4-8-8-4 #4012
- Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe 3776 Class 4-8-4 #3782
- Pennsylvania Railroad K4 Class 4-6-2 #3678 [3]
- Canadian National U-2e Class 4-8-4 #6167
- Pennsylvania Railroad T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5533

[1] Many special excursions run all the way to Weehawken, NJ. Once the end of the NYO&W, but now the end of the Cadosia & Eastern line.
[2] ITTL, many the NYO&W's steamers were acquired by short lines or foreign lines. The railroad's Y-2s were mainly acquired for use in Mexico, but 451 eventually found her way to a park in Oswego.
[3] This one mainly runs the shorter runs from Mayfield to downtown Scranton.
[4] One of several K4s streamlined by Raymond Lowey.

Additional ideas for what could be displayed at this alternate Steamtown are both welcome and encouraged.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

@TheMann
What would be the maximum possible size for a roundhouse in your museum? I ask because for my derivative take, I had the idea of possibly making things a bit bigger.

I also had the idea of the railroad layouts being in the main CNJ terminal instead of one of the new buildings. That way, I could have the south side of the special exhibits be for the international contributions like the Australian Garratt and some other ideas I had up my sleeve.

 

[Virginia Liberal]

So after reading about where the Southern almost merged with the ICG instead of the N&W. I got to wondering how a Tl where the Southern and Missouri Pacific merged creating a Great Southern RR. The Southern's quest for Chicago is met by the MoPac's splitting the C&EI in 1976. While the 1974 Original NS merger gave the Southern a rout into Norfolk.

Who might the NW merge with in this scenario. I'm thinking maybe the ACL or Seaboard.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I thought of that too, but the ARM of my world only has so much space, and I would imagine that if the preservation movement in North America has such a head of steam here it will surely also have one in Britain as well, which will save many a famous locomotive from England.

In such a scenario, I could see up to five of the LNER A3s surviving.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Notable train wrecks of my TL:

The Cañoncito Collision
Location: Cañoncito, New Mexico
Date: August 22, 1999
Ever since they were introduced in 1970, the propane-fueled GE GTEL-4s were considered by many to motive power what nuclear power was to power plants. They were clean and efficient, but at the same time could be horrifically lethal if the slightest thing was wrong. Nonetheless, most railroads would continue to use these engiens without converting them from propane, arguing for their strength and speed, and often working to make sure absolutely nothing was wrong with any of them. However, this incident would prove to be the final straw that led to railroads either converting these engines, or completely retiring the already aging locomotives in favor of the increasingly stronger diesels.

It is roughly afternoon on August 22, as Amtrak's eastbound City of Los Angeles train makes its way to Denver, Colorado after it stopped at Santa Fe, New Mexico. Before that, they will stop at Las Vegas and Raton, NM, and Trinidad and Pueblo, CO. Meanwhile however, Santa Fe GTEL-4 #2600 is heading a manifest freight consisting of 20 Grain Hoppers, 15 Tankers filled with crude oil, 15 Coal Hoppers, 10 boxcars filled with merchandise, and a caboose. The train has just left Las Vegas, and is heading to Cañoncito, where the ATSF's main freight line splits from the line to Santa Fe to more directly reach Kewa Puebo - where the two lines then reunite.

However, not all is going to end up well. The Amtrak is starting to pick up speed as it leaves downtown Santa Fe. The freight on the other hand is lumbering its way through Cañoncito en route. Amtrak's train OTOH was already running at about 85 mph. Unfortunately, the ATSF freight could not see the Amtrak until it has already sped past a curve that took trains northwest to Santa Fe. The ATSF crew quickly realized that there was no hope of stopping a collision, and jumped clear. Meanwhile, the Amtrak crew slammed on the emergency brake, and also jumped.

A loud explosion occurred as the Amtrak rammed into the propane tender, and it exploded. The train was carrying mail cars, and those piled up around the remains of the locomotives on both trains. Likewise, the grain hoppers piled up around the freight, and even chopped the GTEL-4s B unit almost in half. Thankfully, no one was killed - in no small part because the mail cars had, combined with the baggage cars, served as cushions for the rest of the passenger train.

 

[Lucas]

@Andrew Boyd

Would ITTL still occur the Southern Pacific San Bernandino Runaway disaster or the Amtrak Big Bayou Canot crash. I Remember in Transport America by @TheMann that SP crew as able to avoid the runaway. On Amtrak side, i don´t think the ship captain would be able to realize they mistake and crash in the rail bridge.

 

[martinroberts]

Any Alternate takes on the East Troy Electric Railway museum? Does the North Shore survive?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Any Alternate takes on the East Troy Electric Railway museum? Does the North Shore survive?

My idea was that the South Shore, North Shore, and Chicago Aurora and Elgin merge into one system with other interurban lines in the Chicago area.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I was looking at a map for my TL's Amtrak and came up with a new idea for how the Carolinan train from Chicago could work.

At Chattanooga, the train splits into two sections, one bound for each of the two Carolinas. The first train runs via Knoxville and into North Carolina where it serves Asheville, Charlotte, Winston - Salem, Greensboro, and Raleigh before reaching the Kill Devil Hills. The second train runs south into Georgia, and serves Atlanta and Augusta before crossing into South Carolina. In South Carolina, the train runs to Columbia and Florence before reaching Myrtle Beach on the coast.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

@TheMann @Lucas

Another thing regarding my own TL's amtrak.

Should my TL's Raleigh - Charlotte HSR line run via Winston-Salem or High Point? Durham, Greensboro and Salisbury would be served either way. But what do you think should be done to link Winston-Salem?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Now for another map depicting various Amtrak ideas loosely derived from @TheMann's ideas. Namely in terms of the colors for each region:

Amtrak revised - Google My Maps

Amtrak revised

www.google.com