RAF Coastal Command gets equal funding to Bomber Command from 1936

Cryhavoc101

Okay so someone in the air council remembers that while Zeppelins and Gothas where all scary and what have you - u boats and raiders actually did nearly bring the nation to its knees. And one of the major parts of Germany's ultimate defeat was the 'distant blockade' by the Grand Fleet.

So during 1935 with the acceptance of Expansion Scheme M (163 Squadrons and a total of 2,549 aircraft) - the expansion scheme is actually accepted (and implemented) with the additional aircraft and squadrons mostly going to Coastal command giving them 23 Squadrons by 1938

In addition Trenchard is forgotten and the Aircraft developed for the Coastal Command Squadrons needs rather than also being suitable for Bomber command's mission.

So with its primary missions of ASW Patrol, ASuW Patrol with MPA aircraft capable of both the MPA mission , attacking Surface vessels, surfaced U Boats, laying mines and Navy/Air force liaison.

So what aircraft are developed between 14th July 1936 and Sept 1939 and what impact does this change have to the conduct of the war (particularly the early years)?
 

Peg Leg Pom

Cryhavoc101 said:
So what aircraft are developed between 14th July 1936 and Sept 1939 and what impact does this change have to the conduct of the war (particularly the early years)?
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You won't get different aircraft developed, just more of them ordered sooner. Hopefully though the availability of extra funding will allow proper testing and avoid the purchase of disasters like the Saro Lerwick and Blackburn Botha.
 

NOMISYRRUC

Cryhavoc101 said:
So during 1935 with the acceptance of Expansion Scheme M (163 Squadrons and a total of 2,549 aircraft) - the expansion scheme is actually accepted (and implemented) with the additional aircraft and squadrons mostly going to Coastal command giving them 23 Squadrons by 1938)
Click to expand...
Point of fact.

Scheme M wasn't written until the end of 1938 and the completion date was 31st March 1942. It was also for 3,185 aircraft in 212 squadrons. You have missed out the overseas commands.

85 of the 163 squadrons were heavy bomber squadrons with a total I.E. of 1,360 aircraft which were to be a mix of Halifaxes, Manchesters and Stirlings.

The 1935 expansion scheme was Scheme C.
 

NOMISYRRUC

Cryhavoc101 said:
Okay so someone in the air council remembers that while Zeppelins and Gothas where all scary and what have you - u boats and raiders actually did nearly bring the nation to its knees. And one of the major parts of Germany's ultimate defeat was the 'distant blockade' by the Grand Fleet.

So during 1935 with the acceptance of Expansion Scheme M (163 Squadrons and a total of 2,549 aircraft) - the expansion scheme is actually accepted (and implemented) with the additional aircraft and squadrons mostly going to Coastal command giving them 23 Squadrons by 1938

In addition Trenchard is forgotten and the Aircraft developed for the Coastal Command Squadrons needs rather than also being suitable for Bomber command's mission.

So with its primary missions of ASW Patrol, ASuW Patrol with MPA aircraft capable of both the MPA mission , attacking Surface vessels, surfaced U Boats, laying mines and Navy/Air force liaison.

So what aircraft are developed between 14th July 1936 and Sept 1939 and what impact does this change have to the conduct of the war (particularly the early years)?
Click to expand...
Did you really mean Scheme F? That was the 1936 expansion scheme.
 

NOMISYRRUC

Cryhavoc101 said:
Snip
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RAF on 01.04.39 as planned in October 1936 IOTL
The Metropolitan Air Force​

Air 20-67 October 1936 Metropolitan Air Force.png
 

NOMISYRRUC

RAF on 01.04.39 as planned in October 1936 IOTL
The Planned RAF Maritime Force​

RAF Maritime Force for April 1939 as planned in October 1936.png


Edit 28.10.19

There's a mistake in the list of the squadrons that existed on 3rd September 1939. There were 11 Anson squadrons instead of 7 and increases the total from 22 squadrons to 26 squadrons
 
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Cryhavoc101

Thanks NOMISYRRUC

What about commanders - perhaps Sir Philip Bennet Joubert de la Ferté keeps the command and does not disappear to India for 3 years

From what I gather he was quite the Pioneer and its possible we might see British Rikkos a few years earlier
 

NOMISYRRUC

Cryhavoc101 said:
Thanks NOMISYRRUC

What about commanders - perhaps Sir Philip Bennet Joubert de la Ferté keeps the command and does not disappear to India for 3 years

From what I gather he was quite the Pioneer and its possible we might see British Rikkos a few years earlier
Click to expand...
I don't know about the people.

However, for the aircraft choose types of aircraft that were already well advanced instead of ordering "paper" planes "off the drawing board." There's a better chance of having them in service by September 1939 and in greater numbers.

E.g. for the land based G.R. requirement choose the Hampden, Wellington and the Bolingbroke development of the Blenheim instead of the Botha.

The Hampden is my choice for the T.B. requirement instead of the Beaufort.

Order another 21 Sunderlands instead of the Lerwick.

11 Saro R.2/33 flying boats were ordered at the same time as the first order for 11 Sunderlands IOTL, but the order was cancelled in favour of another 10 Sunderlands after the prototype Saro aircraft was written off. ITTL order 22 Sunderlands instead of 11 Saro R.2/33 and 11 Sunderlands in the first place.

If Shorts haven't the capacity to deliver another 32 Sunderlands by March 1939 order the 32 aircraft from Blackburn or Short & Harland in 1936 so that a second Sunderland production lines are set up earlier. The gap in Saro's factory is filled by transferring production of the Walrus firm in 1936 instead of 1940, which has the bonus of allowing Supermarine's factory to concentrate on building the Spitfire four years earlier.

In other words, what I've been writing on threads like this for years. I wrote most of the above in the current better RN between the wars thread.
 

sonofpegasus

In the PAM timeline the De Haviland Flamingo is developed as a MPA, instead of buying Bostons and is built instead of the Blackburn Botha.
 

Jukra

How about going abroad, ie. buying Catalina's? In early years of war they're capable of being used in anti-shipping role too in addition to ASW, even in later years at night.
 

Cryhavoc101

Jukra said:
How about going abroad, ie. buying Catalina's? In early years of war they're capable of being used in anti-shipping role too in addition to ASW, even in later years at night.
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Possibly may be able to leverage native designs - I mean there was a number of designs that never reached production that the British could have built - and they would be far more likely to do that than buy abroad.

But the PBY was a great MPA and an earlier purchase would serve well if it was done.
 

tomo pauk

Cryhavoc101 said:
...

So what aircraft are developed between 14th July 1936 and Sept 1939 and what impact does this change have to the conduct of the war (particularly the early years)?
Click to expand...

I'd like to see militarized versions of the A-W Ensing and DH Albatros. Having four engines means that engine failure still gives a big chance that aircraft will return to base that is hundreds of miles away; we can afford not to be picky about engine types (2nd, even 3rd rate engines can be used); payload (fuel, wepons, electronics) will be substantial, crew can have some comfort for long missions.
2-engine types - we can start with Harrows ad the like, switch to the Hampden, Catalina and Hudson when available. Plus Blenheim as a fighter, with a better gun battery and deleted turret.

How does it change conduct of war? Glorious saved? Less merchant ships sunk? Can snowball quickly.
 
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