Raeder KIA in WW1: Effects on WW2?

According to Wikipedia, Erich Raeder was present at the Battle of Dogger Bank and at the Battle of Jutland.

Suppose he dies in either one of those battles. Who does Hitler appoint as Grand Admiral of the Kriegsmarine in 1939? How is the Battle of the Atlantic affected?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Think the OP question is somewhat ... "wrong".

It wasn't Hitler who "chose" Raeder, it was Groener as Reichswehrminister in 1928, after his predecesor Hans Zenker fell for the "Lohmann"-affair, kind of a "Watergate"-affair revealing secret armament buisnesses and their finances of the Reichmarine (see the 1st link inthe list, the CIA-Report about it ;-)).

Therefore, first you have to look, who else Groener could/should have chosen in 1928 instead of an ITTL non-existant anymore Raeder.

Raeder was someone Hitler "took over" and someone who, VERY quickly adopted to his new "master" (aka : Raeder was a damn, bloody turncoat ... personal opinion ... should have been left to rot at the Marinearchiv).

Some proposals :
Walter Gladisch
or
Iwan Oldekop
Both were made Konteradmirals before the Lohmann-affair. Both were "active" in the Reichsmarine right from 1921. Both were already involved in the search for a successor of Trotha after the Kapp-putsch. They "knew" their ways around in the internal marine-politics ;-). ... In a way part of the reason Groener IOTL chose the in that respect rather "silent" and sidelined Raeder in 1928.

While Oldekop might also be rendered a "Tirpitzian", aka battlkeship-lover, Gladisch was someone with a more ... practical approach and at least leaning towards more towards a more modern cruiser-sub-warfare approach, than most of the other naval big-heads.

However, both were quite ... self-sufficient personalities (more than turncoat Raeder) and it might be questionable, if Hitler wouldn't have replaced them (more ??) sooner or later with someoneelss ... then perhaps with a "young, fresh" face ? ... like ... Dönitz ... already in let's say 1935/36 ?
 
not sure the real differences with Adm. Raeder's plans (all approved by Hitler) since there were treaties, resource constraints, and lack of design staff (at least initially.)

if you installed someone ... creative ... how long would they last in the job? my understanding a near unanimous view was that Germany would be best with U-boat war, but Hitler was trying for better relations with GB?

probably if the warning was given to Raeder of an earlier WWII the building program would have been less patchwork and more coherent?

(so maybe they don't chance a carrier, class of heavy cruisers with unique caliber gun, and switch from Scharnhorst-class to Bismarck-class?)
 
Wagner's essential debate with Raeder was how to best attack RN.
Think the OP question is somewhat ... "wrong".

It wasn't Hitler who "chose" Raeder, it was Groener as Reichswehrminister in 1928, after his predecesor Hans Zenker fell for the "Lohmann"-affair, kind of a "Watergate"-affair revealing secret armament buisnesses and their finances of the Reichmarine (see the 1st link inthe list, the CIA-Report about it ;-)).

Therefore, first you have to look, who else Groener could/should have chosen in 1928 instead of an ITTL non-existant anymore Raeder.

Raeder was someone Hitler "took over" and someone who, VERY quickly adopted to his new "master" (aka : Raeder was a damn, bloody turncoat ... personal opinion ... should have been left to rot at the Marinearchiv).

Some proposals :
Walter Gladisch
or
Iwan Oldekop
Both were made Konteradmirals before the Lohmann-affair. Both were "active" in the Reichsmarine right from 1921. Both were already involved in the search for a successor of Trotha after the Kapp-putsch. They "knew" their ways around in the internal marine-politics ;-). ... In a way part of the reason Groener IOTL chose the in that respect rather "silent" and sidelined Raeder in 1928.

While Oldekop might also be rendered a "Tirpitzian", aka battlkeship-lover, Gladisch was someone with a more ... practical approach and at least leaning towards more towards a more modern cruiser-sub-warfare approach, than most of the other naval big-heads.

However, both were quite ... self-sufficient personalities (more than turncoat Raeder) and it might be questionable, if Hitler wouldn't have replaced them (more ??) sooner or later with someoneelss ... then perhaps with a "young, fresh" face ? ... like ... Dönitz ... already in let's say 1935/36 ?

GOOD POST and very informative. According to W. DIEST , Raeder was selected by Groner in large part as he was A-POLITICAL and could help to restore confidence in the navy....how were Walter Gladisch or Iwan Oldekop; politically?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Wagner's essential debate with Raeder was how to best attack RN.


GOOD POST and very informative. According to W. DIEST , Raeder was selected by Groner in large part as he was A-POLITICAL and could help to restore confidence in the navy....how were Walter Gladisch or Iwan Oldekop; politically?
Oldekop was the older of the two and more ... "formed" also intellectual by the Tirpitz era. After being dismissed from active service 1931, there isn't much known of him.

Gladisch seems to have been a more ... flexible mind but as far as I know occupied with marine internals and much lesser with "profane" domestic politics.
During the Nazi-reign he headed a subgroup for Martial Law in a not too active propaganda society mediating between militaries and civil population.

He was reactivated "only" to become a commissioner at the Highest Prize Court of the Navy.
 
Oldekop was the older of the two and more ... "formed" also intellectual by the Tirpitz era. After being dismissed from active service 1931, there isn't much known of him.

Gladisch seems to have been a more ... flexible mind but as far as I know occupied with marine internals and much lesser with "profane" domestic politics.
During the Nazi-reign he headed a subgroup for Martial Law in a not too active propaganda society mediating between militaries and civil population.

He was reactivated "only" to become a commissioner at the Highest Prize Court of the Navy.


Sounds like Gladisch might have been the best choice? However Defence minister Groner was leaned on heavily by Government to bring the navy back into the fold. At one point there was serious discussion about dissolving the navy completely and selling of ships that the Army didn't have any use for. ....now dats any ATL!!!!
 
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