Queston on His Dark Materials

[NapoleonXIV]

Just finished the "His Dark Materials"Trilogy, and I have one question for all the Pullman bashers that were on here before. Spoiler Alert Highlight


Are you guys really that offended by the fact that a Catholic Church set ENTIRELY IN AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION is depicted as somewhat villainous. I mean cmon, turning a good institution bad is a really standard plot device in AH. I've never seen any of you complain when the USA turns commie, frex. Aren't you being just a little silly here, it's just a story fer crissake

 

[Lord Insane]

Oh, it isn't the Catholic Church.
It's the Magisterium.
There's a difference.

 

[Guildencrantz]

Oh, it isn't the Catholic Church.
It's the Magisterium.
There's a difference.

I agree with LordInsane here. they're two seperate entities that have common charactaristics. Like, Let's use Napolean's example here. There's a differance between the USA, and the USSA.

 

[MrP]

There are Pullman bashers here?

I recall Ian saying it was more simplistic than he'd been led to expect, but that's about it. It's had a lot of stick in the outside world, but not here, AFAIK.

 

[Eladrimstar]

Do you see anyone complaining? Once again you make sweeping generalizations about religious people.

 

[Pkmatrix]

I agree with everyone else. While it is easy to confuse the issue -- apparently the Magesterium came into existence after John Calvin managed to get himself elected Pope and did away with the Papacy -- the Magesterium isn't the Catholic Church, it's a corrupted and decentralized version of it. I consider myself religious (not very, but enough to care) and I loved His Dark Materials. The only reason I haven't seen the movie yet is because I don't want to go see it by myself, and nobody wants to go with me. ^^()

BTW, am I the only one to notice that, in the entirety of the trilogy, there was only ONE direct mention of Christ? What's up with that? Considering all the talk about the church and Christianity, I was sorta annoyed that Pullman completely avoided the issue of Christ himself.

 

[HUCK]

Pullman just kinda creeps me out. Just like the Pope. The new Pope. But the guy's books are called "His Dark Materials". Isn't that the least bit odd to you? That may just be my Christian school talking through me.

 

[NapoleonXIV]

Do you see anyone complaining? Once again you make sweeping generalizations about religious people.

Now,now, I said Pullman basher(s) not religious people, and in this thread, there were two. However, I see also that my point was largely hashed out there as well, so sorry.

Strange book, I found the ending very unsatisfying, as if Pullman felt he had to throw in some sort of point or moral because it was, after all, written as a children's book. Also he mixes the genres of Fantasy and Magical Realism quite freely, an interesting technique but it makes the plot approach silly at times.

 

[Eladrimstar]

No problem.

And I agree. Children don't read books for morals. They read for magic and armored polar bears fighting each other.

 

[Guildencrantz]

No problem.

And I agree. Children don't read books for morals. They read for magic and armored polar bears fighting each other.

I have to say, that, is sig worthy.

 

[Dave Howery]

I just finished "The Golden Compass"... I'm not sure I want to read the others... the first one was wordy as hell and not incredibly interesting to me, at least....

I didn't really find any anti-Christian messages in it... more like anti- 'church having real political control'.....

 

[Pkmatrix]

^ That's all there is, but for some reason people talk about it like it's full blown anti-religious.

 

[Predictably.Damaged]

^ That's all there is, but for some reason people talk about it like it's full blown anti-religious.

I hate to spoil the later books, but he goes off and says that god is a lying bastard who tries to kill people and that Satan is a good guy (or girl whatever) who wants you to think for yourself.

 

[Predictably.Damaged]

I have to say, that, is sig worthy.

And I have it. Don't anyone steal it.

And to whoever the person who came up with it, I'm will to discuss appropriate compensation.

 

[Pkmatrix]

I hate to spoil the later books, but he goes off and says that god is a lying bastard who tries to kill people and that Satan is a good guy (or girl whatever) who wants you to think for yourself.

I've read all three, I know. It's still not anti-religious, although it is anti-organized religion (and kinda anarchist, actually). The ultimate point is not to just follow others blindly without ever questioning anything, that every person must make their own decisions and decide for themselves who or what God and Heaven are.

 

[Hapsburg]

Are you guys really that offended by the fact that a Catholic Church...depicted as somewhat villainous...good institution...

Personally, I think the Roman Catholic Church was villainous in OTL. I like them the most out of any of the Christian sects, but I still don't like the things they did in the past to people who disagreed minutely with their dogma. They were like the friggin' Jedi.
Anyway...you have a point, people looking too deeply into a fictional story and all that. It is, after all, just fiction.

he goes off and says that god is a lying bastard who tries to kill people and that Satan is a good guy (or girl whatever) who wants you to think for yourself.

In the context to Christian mythology, this analysis is none too inaccurate.
But, the issue's moot to me, because I don't believe in either entities.

 

[Tony Williams]

Strange book, I found the ending very unsatisfying, as if Pullman felt he had to throw in some sort of point or moral because it was, after all, written as a children's book.

Apparently not...I have read that he didn't write it for any specific audience but the publisher decided to market it as a children's book, presumably because the main characters are children.