Questions re Rupert of the Rhine

So, I suppose this is two questions merged into one.

Firstly, assuming Rupert of the Rhine had married and had issue, especially male issue, should the Glorious Revolution happen, and Anne still not have children, I assume the immediate preference for an heir would be Rupert's children, if so, being as they'd have been raised in Britain their entire lives, would they have a better understanding of British politics than George I and II did, thus preventing the complete shift of power to Parliament?

Secondly, assuming Rupert marries and has a legitimate daughter, before it becomes evident that Mary and Anne aren't having any children, could said daughter marry someone such as a son of John Churchill, Duke of Marlborough. And if said son survives, and things go as otl, would this daughter of Rupert's become Queen Regnant per the Act of Settlement? And after her, her children with Churchill's son?

Thirdly, similar scenario as number two, but this time a daughter of Anne's survives, and makes a love marriage with a son of Churchill's, consequences?

Thoughts and comments are appreciated.
 
Firstly, assuming Rupert of the Rhine had married and had issue, especially male issue, should the Glorious Revolution happen, and Anne still not have children, I assume the immediate preference for an heir would be Rupert's children, if so, being as they'd have been raised in Britain their entire lives, would they have a better understanding of British politics than George I and II did, thus preventing the complete shift of power to Parliament?
So long as they're Protestant. They would come ahead of the Hanovers iirc.
If his wife was Catholic there might be some issues though.

Secondly, assuming Rupert marries and has a legitimate daughter, before it becomes evident that Mary and Anne aren't having any children, could said daughter marry someone such as a son of John Churchill, Duke of Marlborough. And if said son survives, and things go as otl, would this daughter of Rupert's become Queen Regnant per the Act of Settlement? And after her, her children with Churchill's son?
Wouldn't said daughter still need royal and parliamentary assent to marry?

Thirdly, similar scenario as number two, but this time a daughter of Anne's survives, and makes a love marriage with a son of Churchill's, consequences?
As above. Close members of the royal succession need permission from the sovereign to marry. Iirc Parliament or Government also had input to this thanks to the Settlement Acts.
 
So long as they're Protestant. They would come ahead of the Hanovers iirc.
If his wife was Catholic there might be some issues though.


Wouldn't said daughter still need royal and parliamentary assent to marry?


As above. Close members of the royal succession need permission from the sovereign to marry. Iirc Parliament or Government also had input to this thanks to the Settlement Acts.

Alright interesting, who might a son of Rupert's marry? I imagine perhaps a Protestant cousin, maybe even the daughter of Sophia of Hanover? Or George I's daughter, depending on when they're born.

Royal consent I think is definitely needed, Parliament assent isn't I think, recalling the Acts of Provision within the Act of Settlement.

I wonder, would this therefore remove or lessen Tory support for the Jacobites?
 
Alright interesting, who might a son of Rupert's marry? I imagine perhaps a Protestant cousin, maybe even the daughter of Sophia of Hanover? Or George I's daughter, depending on when they're born.
Yeah, unless an alliance is needed they'll be a good match.

Royal consent I think is definitely needed, Parliament assent isn't I think, recalling the Acts of Provision within the Act of Settlement
Ah, makes sense.

I wonder, would this therefore remove or lessen Tory support for the Jacobites?
Should lessen it, Rupert was fairly popular after all.
 
Yeah, unless an alliance is needed they'll be a good match.


Ah, makes sense.


Should lessen it, Rupert was fairly popular after all.

Alright interesting. So, now I just need to decide who Rupert should marry and when aha.

And alrighty.

Also, re the Churchill marriage, is that at all likely?
 
There's something about the House of Churchill that just I dunno, has a nice ring to it.

And Winston as a Prince would be, hysterical
 
Not to mention that Rupert having legitimate issue - most likely candidate for him to marry might be Frances Bard or some other English girl/heiress. Although @Valena seems to be quite knowledgeable on things Rupert - would butterfly away (if said issue has dangly bits) the War of the Palatine Succession.
 
Not to mention that Rupert having legitimate issue - most likely candidate for him to marry might be Frances Bard or some other English girl/heiress. Although @Valena seems to be quite knowledgeable on things Rupert - would butterfly away (if said issue has dangly bits) the War of the Palatine Succession.

OOh which could lead to more of a dangle regarding the monarch having land outside Britain
 
Certainly a personal union of GB, Ireland, and the Palatinate would have interesting consequences considering its nearness to France...
 
Most likely England to the elder and the Palatinate to the younger (none of this Hannoveria n PU nonsense), Rupert was more English than German after all.

OOOh interesting, and this makes sense. Which means, more power to the crown for a time as well.
 
Who summoned me? Also, I agree with Jonas, though the brief TLIAD I did here showed (in retrospect, when planning for update) an issue that I ignored in Duchess of Cumberland TL. Though this one was my early trial with a lot of errors.

France MAY still end up invading Palatinate, as Louis XIV may think that claim of Duchesse d'Orleans is superior to the Elector's first cousin. However, by doing so it may lose English support EVEN from James II - it's one thing being pro-French when they tear at your son-in-law whom you hate, and another thing to deny thoroughly British Royal Duke its patrimony. Especially if this Duke, and not some Danish prince, ends up married to Anne (or even Mary, if we go by the mention in the Eve Scott book that Rupert in 1664 entertained the idea of marrying either Mlle de Dunois or Francoise of Savoy, OTL Queen of Portugal - I find the first one more likely for reasons I've cited in the post I've quoted above).

Next, on Churchill marriage. Such a lowly thing would never happen if Rupert has any say, as Churchill was the first Peer in his generation. It only would carry weight if there is an issue from morganatic marriage, but even then, Rupert OTL included the offer of his bastard daughter Ruperta Hughes' hand to the King's bastard son, later created Duke of St Albans (this was largely forgotten past Charles II death and Glorious Revolution, and Ruperta married whom she married). He wanted his children to marry royally (or quasi-royally), and not to some parvenues, military talent or not.
 
Who summoned me? Also, I agree with Jonas, though the brief TLIAD I did here showed (in retrospect, when planning for update) an issue that I ignored in Duchess of Cumberland TL. Though this one was my early trial with a lot of errors.

France MAY still end up invading Palatinate, as Louis XIV may think that claim of Duchesse d'Orleans is superior to the Elector's first cousin. However, by doing so it may lose English support EVEN from James II - it's one thing being pro-French when they tear at your son-in-law whom you hate, and another thing to deny thoroughly British Royal Duke its patrimony. Especially if this Duke, and not some Danish prince, ends up married to Anne (or even Mary, if we go by the mention in the Eve Scott book that Rupert in 1664 entertained the idea of marrying either Mlle de Dunois or Francoise of Savoy, OTL Queen of Portugal - I find the first one more likely for reasons I've cited in the post I've quoted above).

Next, on Churchill marriage. Such a lowly thing would never happen if Rupert has any say, as Churchill was the first Peer in his generation. It only would carry weight if there is an issue from morganatic marriage, but even then, Rupert OTL included the offer of his bastard daughter Ruperta Hughes' hand to the King's bastard son, later created Duke of St Albans (this was largely forgotten past Charles II death and Glorious Revolution, and Ruperta married whom she married). He wanted his children to marry royally (or quasi-royally), and not to some parvenues, military talent or not.
Okay intriguing so Rupert marries mle de dunois in the 1660s one assumes, perhaps having a few children that way. Could this butterfly things, such as the glorious revolution or was that always going to happen? And could Rupert son if married to Anne push for a co regnant position as William did?
 
That really depends on the character of personage - if he inherits his father's fierce temper, that's one thing. But OTL Rupert's (illegitimate) son Dudley Bard was of remarkably gentle temper, though fine (if unlucky) military officer.

The GR would be a domestic revolt if a British Royal Duke in form of 2nd Duke of Cumberland/Earl of Holderness (with a bit more luck regarding battle wounds of Second Anglo-Dutch War Rupert may even outlive Charles II or die at approximately the same time, and different family life means different daily routine, so his OTL lethal pleurisy is almost guatanted to be butterflied). IF it happens, as Rupert was firmly against the removal of James II from the line of succession, more in favor of creating restraining limitations for him, and his son may inherit his political views and ideas, those being what we now call "Moderate Whigs".

If Palatinate Succession thing opens at the same time as the English succession, as OTL, James II would be up for the difficult choise (that assumes, though, that Louis XIV would treat his cousin's close kin just like the Neuburg bunch of OTL and the greed prevails over common sence). Catholic or not, there are some limits - and James may end up in "Catholic King having to take the anti-French position", defending Palatinate rights of his first cousin once removed/son-in-law, which may score him some cred with Parliament. That, however, depends on Louis XIV being dumb enough to offend his strategic ally he himself subsidized in his quest of France having pretty Rhine borders.
 
That really depends on the character of personage - if he inherits his father's fierce temper, that's one thing. But OTL Rupert's (illegitimate) son Dudley Bard was of remarkably gentle temper, though fine (if unlucky) military officer.

The GR would be a domestic revolt if a British Royal Duke in form of 2nd Duke of Cumberland/Earl of Holderness (with a bit more luck regarding battle wounds of Second Anglo-Dutch War Rupert may even outlive Charles II or die at approximately the same time, and different family life means different daily routine, so his OTL lethal pleurisy is almost guatanted to be butterflied). IF it happens, as Rupert was firmly against the removal of James II from the line of succession, more in favor of creating restraining limitations for him, and his son may inherit his political views and ideas, those being what we now call "Moderate Whigs".

If Palatinate Succession thing opens at the same time as the English succession, as OTL, James II would be up for the difficult choise (that assumes, though, that Louis XIV would treat his cousin's close kin just like the Neuburg bunch of OTL and the greed prevails over common sence). Catholic or not, there are some limits - and James may end up in "Catholic King having to take the anti-French position", defending Palatinate rights of his first cousin once removed/son-in-law, which may score him some cred with Parliament. That, however, depends on Louis XIV being dumb enough to offend his strategic ally he himself subsidized in his quest of France having pretty Rhine borders.
Okay interesting. If Rupert son likely named Charles has his fathers political feelings but s gentle temper, and pushes for James to remain but look for ways to check himself, and if he has a good relationship with his cousin, that could make things fascinating
 
The names in the hat for son are likely Charles, Robert (Rupert was not above naming a son after himself, even if in anglicized version), Maurice (after dead beloved brother) and Frederick (after Rupert's father) or a combination thereof.

By the way, if the mother is Charlotte de Dunois, said child also may turn out to be the heir to Principality of Neuchatel come 1694 (and to three to four French ducal titles, and these can be used as bargaining bits if Louis makes any protests over Earl of Holderness' succession to Palatinate, thus butterflying away the Augsburg League War as we know it), which butterflies the Brandenburg Hohenzollerns from getting a foothold in Switzerland.
 
The names in the hat for son are likely Charles, Robert (Rupert was not above naming a son after himself, even if in anglicized version), Maurice (after dead beloved brother) and Frederick (after Rupert's father) or a combination thereof.

By the way, if the mother is Charlotte de Dunois, said child also may turn out to be the heir to Principality of Neuchatel come 1694 (and to three to four French ducal titles, and these can be used as bargaining bits if Louis makes any protests over Earl of Holderness' succession to Palatinate, thus butterflying away the Augsburg League War as we know it), which butterflies the Brandenburg Hohenzollerns from getting a foothold in Switzerland.
He could do a Hanover and give his kid all thos names aha. And this is very true, wouldmswid kid spend more time in the palatinate or Britain?
 
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