Question: Why Sukhoi PAK FA and not MiG 1.44?

Incognito

Banned
Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I understand Mig 1.44 was intended to be U.S.S.R.'s answer to America's F-22 (unlike the Su-47, which was slated as a technological demonstrator). However, with the dissolution of Soviet Union and the issues of 1990s, the project the MiG-1.44 was developed under was eventually canceled. Instead, the PAK FA program begun and resulted in the Sukhoi PAK FA. So my question is: does anyone here know why MiG 1.44 development was not continued and instead a development of a brand new plane was started & slated to be Russia's fifth-generation fighter?

Why this?
sukhoi_pak_fa.jpg


And not this?
mig1448052iw.jpg


(Again, please correct me if I am wrong on something)
 
Just from the pictures, it looks as though the PAK-FA is stealthier (I'm seeing a couple of right angles on the MiG). I'll have to do more research to see what that performance difference were like.
 

NothingNow

Banned
So my question is: does anyone here know why MiG 1.44 development was not continued and instead a development of a brand new plane was started & slated to be Russia's fifth-generation fighter?

Because, as it turns out, the MiG 1.44 program was running outside what Russia was willing to spend, without decent results.

Thus the PAK FA is a less ambitious project using a lot more proven components, and the Indians are paying for a good portion of it in the FGFA.

Also, the original AL-41 was supposed to be really expensive and complex.
 

Incognito

Banned
Just from the pictures, it looks as though the PAK-FA is stealthier (I'm seeing a couple of right angles on the MiG). I'll have to do more research to see what that performance difference were like.
Because, as it turns out, the MiG 1.44 program was running outside what Russia was willing to spend, without decent results.

Thus the PAK FA is a less ambitious project using a lot more proven components, and the Indians are paying for a good portion of it in the FGFA.
There are examples of other military projects that had to change their goals during development. Why couldn't MiG 1.44 be made stealthier, less complex/expensive (at the cost of less ambitious performance though) and invite Indian investment?
 

NothingNow

Banned
There are examples of other military projects that had to change their goals during development. Why couldn't MiG 1.44 be made stealthier, less complex/expensive (at the cost of less ambitious performance though) and invite Indian investment?

Would've cost too much.
 

NothingNow

Banned
So why couldn't it be built cheaper but with poorer performance? Your argument was that the PAK-FA was/is meant to do just that.

They were pretty broke at the time. Remember? There wasn't money to develop anything, while the indians were interested in the Su-30MK and then the Su-30MKI.
So the complex MiG 1.44 got canned, and when they had enough money to restart the program, they decided to go with the much more promising project that became the PAK FA.

Also, the MiG 1.44 is pretty ugly, and the Russians build for export.
 

Incognito

Banned
They were pretty broke at the time. Remember? There wasn't money to develop anything, while the indians were interested in the Su-30MK and then the Su-30MKI.
So the complex MiG 1.44 got canned, and when they had enough money to restart the program, they decided to go with the much more promising project that became the PAK FA.
And I was asking is there any reason they did not go for a simplified MiG 1.44 instead.
Also, the MiG 1.44 is pretty ugly, and the Russians build for export.
So mulch-million (if not billion) defense contracts are determined by beauty pageants?

Not%2BSure%2Bif%2Bserious.jpg
 
I can't even pronounce Ramenskoye, and I think the MiG is too close a copy of Firefox to risk a Mitchell Gant incident. The plasma stealth technology earmarked for this unit is theoretically the bee's knees, but, perhaps too pricey, even in the military/industrial complex sense, to minimize the RCS of that gaping maw under the nose.
 

NothingNow

Banned
And I was asking is there any reason they did not go for a simplified MiG 1.44 instead.
Because it was already worthless, as Su-30MKI and Su-35BM did everything a simplified MiG 1.44 could do (and more,) for much less cost and risk.

Thus, once the MiG 1.44 was canceled, there was no way in hell you'd ever get it going again.

So mulch-million (if not billion) defense contracts are determined by beauty pageants?
Actually, yes, having an ugly as fuck plane can make it hard to sell, especially when you're going up against a plane like the Flanker.
 
Another reason may have been the advances made in field of low RCS airframe design made a complete redesign desirable.

The MiG 1.44 project was started when 'stealth' was an experimental field in aircraft technology, the PAK FA on the other hand has come to fruition in a time where the basic principles of this field are common knowledge.
You have to keep in mind that the Soviets designed the Mig 1.44 to compete with what they imagined the next generation of Western fighters to be, not what the Americans were actually working on.
 
Another reason may have been the advances made in field of low RCS airframe design made a complete redesign desirable.

The MiG 1.44 project was started when 'stealth' was an experimental field in aircraft technology, the PAK FA on the other hand has come to fruition in a time where the basic principles of this field are common knowledge.
You have to keep in mind that the Soviets designed the Mig 1.44 to compete with what they imagined the next generation of Western fighters to be, not what the Americans were actually working on.

That's a good point too. Effective stealth has to be incorporated at the design stage, you can't just design an aircraft and retrofit it with stealth technology later.
 

Incognito

Banned
OK, so had the MiG 1.44 project continued, what would the end product look like and what would its capabilities be?
 
OK, so had the MiG 1.44 project continued, what would the end product look like and what would its capabilities be?

An overpriced aircraft with decent capabilities but not worth producing when Russia has too many aircraft grounded due to chronic maintainice failures and lack of funds already.
 

Incognito

Banned
An overpriced aircraft with decent capabilities but not worth producing when Russia has too many aircraft grounded due to chronic maintainice failures and lack of funds already.
I guess I should have clarified: assuming you have one of those "Soviet Union keeps together longer than OTL" or something and Russia/U.S.S.R. has enough cash to see the project through, what does it look like in the end and what are its capabilities?
 

NothingNow

Banned
Something similar to Eurofighter.;)

But worse. It's not very stealthy, has far less capable electronics, and probably isn't as maneuverable as the updated Flankers it competes with at home, but it can just barely supercruise.

Hell, the Sukhoi S-32 program and it's developments (culminating in the Su-47) probably would've trounced the 1.44 in a fly-off.
 
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