Question regarding public interest in Islamic generals.

[LSCatilina]

Neither is actually true : Saladin was as much demonized (litteraly) by contemporary chronicles and depictions than some that "integrated" him in the medieval scope.
Latin lords probably had an overall better opinion of him, but not all of these far from it.

The good contemporary depictions you have about Saladin are less about chivalry and such, but rather in order to pull unfavourable comparison to Latins (as Gilles de Corbeil's account of Saladin as tolerent and that wasn't a Christian because he was turned off by priests), or to abide by a chivalrous narrative that tended to depict everything under its scope (similarily the same way Andalusian society is depicted as a feudal one in the Song of Roland).
It's far from being restricted to Saladin, Noradin beneficing from a relatively similar treatment.

Why Saladin got more mention with time? Mostly because he basically ruled a superpower that was directly at odds with Europeans, and the narrative exotism only grew up (Book of Wonders being a good exemple).

Eventually it became less and less about Saladin (at the point his religious background is barely mentioned, if at all), but about the narrative of the wise and fair ruler.

By the XVIIIth century, it only get an even more caricatural treatment, and that's from this era and the XIXth, that the narrative of the eastern chivalrous ruler really made it in popular history.

 

[Achaemenid Rome]

We are speaking of modern conceptions of Saladin, not what contemporaries wrote. It is impossible in my opinion for someone to dispute his fame in the west as not correlating to his participation in the extremely romantic saga of the Mid Eastern crusades.

Yeah but Italian Renaissance writers, who darthfanta was talking about, have far different reasons to overly extol Saladin than 19th century writers.

 

[LSCatilina]

Yeah but Italian Renaissance writers, who darthfanta was talking about, have far different reasons to overly extol Saladin than 19th century writers.

You mean the mention in the Decameron? The mention where Saladin violently express his disbelief about pontifical power?
There must be a reason people would put in a fictional non-christian mouth, statements about the pope in a period of clerical crisis, IMO.

 

[darthfanta]

We are speaking of modern conceptions of Saladin, not what contemporaries wrote. It is impossible in my opinion for someone to dispute his fame in the west as not correlating to his participation in the extremely romantic saga of the Mid Eastern crusades.

This.It's also worthwhile to note that Saladin regained popularity in the super racist 19th century.

 

[LSCatilina]

It's still mostly wrong : the actual conception of Saladin isn't due to some racist shenanigan from "Christians", but directly tied up to the XVIIIth enlightement and XIXth secular historians, using up most of late medieval narrative.

If something, it's not due to "Christians", but to secular writers in opposition to the late modern era monarchy and religious influence. Not everything is litteraly racist, and this has to be, sorry to point it, one of the laziest approach on historiography when made systematically (as, of course, you have questions of race and racism in western historiography. It's just that it doesn't pop out of nowhere).

 

[Achaemenid Rome]

You mean the mention in the Decameron? The mention where Saladin violently express his disbelief about pontifical power?
There must be a reason people would put in a fictional non-christian mouth, statements about the pope in a period of clerical crisis, IMO.

I'm only aware of the three rings parable in the Decameron. That story has been thought to have originated from the Middle East.

 

[darthfanta]

It's still mostly wrong : the actual conception of Saladin isn't due to some racist shenanigan from "Christians", but directly tied up to the XVIIIth enlightement and XIXth secular historians, using up most of late medieval narrative.

If something, it's not due to "Christians", but to secular writers in opposition to the late modern era monarchy and religious influence. Not everything is litteraly racist, and this has to be, sorry to point it, one of the laziest approach on historiography when made systematically (as, of course, you have questions of race and racism in western historiography. It's just that it doesn't pop out of nowhere).

I'm talking about the amount of attention paid to Saladin by the west as opposed to other Islamic figures.It has a lot to do with the fact that he defeated some western army and fought a King of England to a standstill.

 

[LSCatilina]

I'm only aware of the three rings parable in the Decameron. That story has been thought to have originated from the Middle East.

Ah, fair point : I think I confused with another text. Maybe the Salhadin.

 

[LSCatilina]

I'm talking about the amount of attention paid to Saladin by the west as opposed to other Islamic figures.It has a lot to do with the fact that he defeated some western army and fought a King of England to a standstill.

It's still not much racism : eurocentric possibly (which is not the same thing, unless we're ready to call 3/4 of the TLs on this board as racist), but it's based on a secular viewpoint of the XIXth, not a Christian one.

 

[Achaemenid Rome]

I'm talking about the amount of attention paid to Saladin by the west as opposed to other Islamic figures.It has a lot to do with the fact that he defeated some western army and fought a King of England to a standstill.

How were Renaissance Italians supposed to have accurate knowledge of the Middle East when so many Islamic historical texts remained untranslated? Even into the Enlightenment and early 19th century really.

Of course they grabbed onto the most well known figure they could find.

 

[darthfanta]

How were Renaissance Italians supposed to have accurate knowledge of the Middle East when so many Islamic historical texts remained untranslated? Even into the Enlightenment and early 19th century really.

Of course they grabbed onto the most well known figure they could find.

I'm not talking about renaissance Italians,I'm talking about how the currently fame of Saladin is linked with Western-Centrism which is in turn often linked to racism and bigotry.I've seen plenty of people praising Saladin to no ends even comparing him to the likes of Napoleon even though there's no merit whatsoever to such claims upon examination of the guy's record.