Question: Prussian Succession?

Hi all, could really use the help of the German history buffs out there to
help me understand how the internal dynamics of Prussian succession
worked!

My question is this: was a reigning kings heir automatically his closest male
relative...or....could a king specifically designate someone as heir, bypassing
all others?

For example could Frederick the great have designated another relative as his
heir, deciding that his decadent and indolent nephew Frederick William II was
unfit! Choosing instead his brother Henry (yes I know unlikely, its just an
example) or Frederick William's younger brother also called Henry (whom Fred
the Great was apparently very fond of)?

Basically could Prussian monarchs designate their heirs or was it automatically
the next in line by gender/age?

BTW i'm aware Salic Law was in effect so women were barred from succeeding!

Would really appreciate anything y'all could tell me.

Cheers

Edit:

Also could anyone tell me why exactly Frederick the Great couldn't have children
again?

I've heard various things ranging from an injury incurred while running away from
home to him being a closet homosexual (something I find unlikely as he was said
to have disliked his younger brother Henry for being a homosexual!).
 
As long as Prussia was part of the Holy Roman Empire, no. The order of succession to a state could only be changed with the Emperor's consent. This was probably the only thing which saved FtG himself from being disinherited by his father.

Not absolutely sure, but I think the German Confederation had a similar law.
 
Interesting!

How strictly was this rule enforced by the 1700's? Also with the Hohenzollern's being protestant, was the HR Emperor's consent still such a necessity or more symbolic than anything else?
Whose consent was required under the German Confederation? The Confed. President? (Wasn't that still the Austrian Emperor or am I confusing periods here?)

Did these rules apply throughout the Hohenzollern lands or was Prussia itself exempt? (as technically it was outside the Holy Roman Empire)

How did the Emperor's apply their consent? Did they usually just rubber stamp the state monarchs choice so as not to alienate them or did they on occasion/often go against the monarch and strictly follow the clear line of succession no matte the monarchs preferences?

Side Question:

Was it in any way possible for Salic Law to be overturned or not adopted at all by the Hohenzollerns?
Would this have benefited or inhibited them in any way?

I know that the Habsburgs and the French monarchy traditionally made good use of the law, however i've never read anything specifying the Hohenzollern position on it!
All I have to go on is Anna of Prussia being the heiress of Prussia, as well as the expected Duchies of Cleves, Julich and Berg, and the Counties of Mark and Ravensberg, thus her marriage to John Sigismund was an important step in incorporating Prussia into Brandenburg. However there seems to have been no real possibility of her ruling Prussia in her own right!
 
In a word, no. Very few monarchs had the power to designate their successor contrary to their country's laws of succession. Henry VIII gained the power to change the succession via Act of Parliament; Peter the Great gave himself the power to designate his heir when he established the Russian Empire, though that power was lost/abandoned with the Pauline House laws and I think Napoleon was also able to adopt an heir in the absence of a direct descendant. These are the only examples I can think of.

As for Salic law, it came from Germanic tradition and was enshrined across all the states of the Holy Roman Empire. The idea of changing it never really came up: the Habsburgs did amend the law via the Pragmatic succession, but that only allowed female inheritance in the event of the entire male line going extinct.

Finally, Anna wasn't the heiress of Prussia: the Electors of Brandenburg obtained the co-enfeoffment (Mitbelehnung) of their line of the Hohenzollern with the Prussian dukedom, making them the heirs should the Dukes fail to produce an heir. It was a coincidence that Anna was married to the eventual inheritor.
 
Really? My understanding was that John Sigismund and his father before him were only regents of Prussia due to Albert Frederick's mental illness, and that John Sigismund could only become Duke of Prussia after he married his cousin Anna, the legal heir! Everything I've ever read about her, including some posts on this forum, have referred to her as the "Prussian heiress"! This is the first time I'm hearing about the co-enfeoffment with the Brandenburgers.

That's why I brought her up!

Edit:

Why would the Emperor allow the co-enfeoffment in the first place? That would automatically entail the union of Brandenburg with Prussia, thus empowering a potential rival I would think?

Sorry don't mean to sound like an ass, I've just never heard this fact before and would love some background!

Prussian history is a beloved topic for me as my mothers family came from there, and an aunt on my fathers side was born in Konigsberg/Kaliningrad!:D

BTW I really do hope they rename it back to Konigsberg, as many of the locals (including many Russians) are asking for! Would be awesome and I know my aunt would get a real kick out of visiting her old hometown with its original name again before she passes on (she in her 80's but still visits the place every year)!
 
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Really? My understanding was that John Sigismund and his father before him were only regents of Prussia due to Albert Frederick's mental illness, and that John Sigismund could only become Duke of Prussia after he married his cousin Anna, the legal heir! Everything I've ever read about her, including some posts on this forum, have referred to her as the "Prussian heiress"! This is the first time I'm hearing about the co-enfeoffment with the Brandenburgers.

That's why I brought her up!

Edit:

Why would the Emperor allow the co-enfeoffment in the first place? That would automatically entail the union of Brandenburg with Prussia, thus empowering a potential rival I would think?

Sorry don't mean to sound like an ass, I've just never heard this fact before and would love some background!

Prussian history is a beloved topic for me as my mothers family came from there, and an aunt on my fathers side was born in Konigsberg/Kaliningrad!:D

BTW I really do hope they rename it back to Konigsberg, as many of the locals (including many Russians) are asking for! Would be awesome and I know my aunt would get a real kick out of visiting her old hometown with its original name again before she passes on (she in her 80's but still visits the place every year)!
Prior to the rise of old fritz Brandenburg was pretty loyal you to the Habsburgs and at the time if you suggested Brandenburg would not only come to challenge Austria but annex silesia you would have been laughed at. So the Emperor would not have worried about creating a rival
 

oberdada

Gone Fishin'
Friedrich II. claims to Silesia mainly based on the fact that it could not be inherited by a female, since the same goes for Prussia...

In 1701 Friedrich I. needed the Emperors permission to become a King in the first place, even though Prussia wasn't even part of the HRE , just saying..
 
Side Question:

Was it in any way possible for Salic Law to be overturned or not adopted at all by the Hohenzollerns?
Would this have benefited or inhibited them in any way?

I know that the Habsburgs and the French monarchy traditionally made good use of the law, however i've never read anything specifying the Hohenzollern position on it!
All I have to go on is Anna of Prussia being the heiress of Prussia, as well as the expected Duchies of Cleves, Julich and Berg, and the Counties of Mark and Ravensberg, thus her marriage to John Sigismund was an important step in incorporating Prussia into Brandenburg. However there seems to have been no real possibility of her ruling Prussia in her own right!
Cleves, Jülich and Berg never had pure salic law, same as most other places in the area (and I expect, most places period; see also Austria passing to Maria Theresa despite some opposition).

What most places had was a salic-like law, where no land could be held by a woman unless she was unmarried, but she could be the heiress (and thus bring great power and wealth to her eventual husband and heirs).
 

Tyr Anazasi

Banned
Well, indeed Frederic the Great seriously considered to change the rules of succession. Heinrich von Preußen (1747-1767) was the second son of his brother August Wilhelm (1722-1758). As Frederick had no children and August Wilhelm dying 1758 his first son, Friedrich Wilhelm II, was to succeed him. However, due to the accidental death of Heinrich all considerations Friedrich the Great had were moot.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_von_Preußen_(1747–1767)
 
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Well, indeed Frederic the Great seriously considered to change the rules of succession. Heinrich von Preußen (1747-1767) was the second son of his brother August Wilhelm (1722-1758). As Frederick had no children and August Wilhelm dying 1758 his first son, Friedrich Wilhelm III, was to succeed him. However, due to the accidental death of Heinrich all considerations Friedrich the Great had were moot.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_von_Preußen_(1747–1767)
Frederick Wilhelm II became King at the death of Frederick the Great and was at best, bad. But a change of succession for Frederick Wilhelm II being replaced by his brother Heinrich would also deprive the Prussians of the more capable monarchs that were his son Frederick Wilhelm III, and Frederick Wilhelm III's sons, Frederik Wilhelm IV and Wilhelm I.
 
Well, indeed Frederic the Great seriously considered to change the rules of succession. Heinrich von Preußen (1747-1767) was the second son of his brother August Wilhelm (1722-1758). As Frederick had no children and August Wilhelm dying 1758 his first son, Friedrich Wilhelm II, was to succeed him. However, due to the accidental death of Heinrich all considerations Friedrich the Great had were moot.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_von_Preußen_(1747–1767)
Wait, does that mean the ruling dynasty of Prussia would be von Preußen instead of von Hohenzollern? Because that sounds delightfully redundant when translated to English
"The ruling house of the Kingdom of Prussia: of Prussia" or would he just boringly adopt the Hohenzollern name?
 
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Tyr Anazasi

Banned
The ruling dynasty was the House of Hohenzollern. The title, though was Kurfürst von Brandenburg, then additionally Herzog in Preußen, later (1701) König in Preußen, Kurfürst von Brandenburg, König von Preußen, Kurfürst von Brandenburg (since 1776 with the aquiring of Royal Prussia (=West Prussia)). So it is indeed König Friedrich II. von Preußen, Kurfürst von Brandenburg, etc., from the House of Hohenzollern.
 
The ruling dynasty was the House of Hohenzollern. The title, though was Kurfürst von Brandenburg, then additionally Herzog in Preußen, later (1701) König in Preußen, Kurfürst von Brandenburg, König von Preußen, Kurfürst von Brandenburg (since 1776 with the aquiring of Royal Prussia (=West Prussia)). So it is indeed König Friedrich II. von Preußen, Kurfürst von Brandenburg, etc., from the House of Hohenzollern.
I see my error now, I miss read and it caused me to confuse heinrich title with his name.
 
Really? My understanding was that John Sigismund and his father before him were only regents of Prussia due to Albert Frederick's mental illness, and that John Sigismund could only become Duke of Prussia after he married his cousin Anna, the legal heir! Everything I've ever read about her, including some posts on this forum, have referred to her as the "Prussian heiress"! This is the first time I'm hearing about the co-enfeoffment with the Brandenburgers.

That's why I brought her up!

Edit:

Why would the Emperor allow the co-enfeoffment in the first place? That would automatically entail the union of Brandenburg with Prussia, thus empowering a potential rival I would think?

They may call her the Prussian heiress, but that's a common misconception. If so then Prussia would have passed to Anna alone or jointly to Anna and Johann Sigismund. While her marriage to Johann strengthened Electoral claims to Prussia and blocked any contested succession, but legally it wasn't necessary.

As for why, how could the Emperor block it? Prussia was a Polish fief; its succession and investiture was up to the King of Poland-Lithuania. The Emperor had no right to contest a decision made by a fellow sovereign, especially over a territory that had never part of the Empire.


Friedrich II. claims to Silesia mainly based on the fact that it could not be inherited by a female, since the same goes for Prussia...

In 1701 Friedrich I. needed the Emperors permission to become a King in the first place, even though Prussia wasn't even part of the HRE , just saying..

No, Friedrich II's so-called claim was based on might makes right: even ignoring female succession, Bohemia had previously accepted the succession of the husband of an heiress in the person of Albert II of Germany. So at the least Francis of Lorraine would have become King.
 
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