Question on Nazi-Japan Cold War Sphere of Influence

i'm assuming a Japanese victory, otherwise this question would be pointless;
how about instead of everytime you can't think of a way to make something happen, you try and find a way instead of just saying ASB

Assume it all you want, the USA still exists ITTL. Japan & Germany can in no way shape or from project-power onto the Western Hemisphere.

Nazi Europa would be basket case and would start to implode as soon as Hitler has one cocaine, arsenic & toasted snail's penis injection too many. Japan's militarist regime was ramshackle, but that gives it hope for a better outcome, ditto it's puppet states.
 
Imperial Japan was actively trying to collect Jews so that they could 'work for us', that'll certainly upset Germany. Another thing Nazi propagandists might pounce on is would be their policy of neutrality towards the Soviet Union.
 
Assume it all you want, the USA still exists ITTL. Japan & Germany can in no way shape or from project-power onto the Western Hemisphere.

Nazi Europa would be basket case and would start to implode as soon as Hitler has one cocaine, arsenic & toasted snail's penis injection too many. Japan's militarist regime was ramshackle, but that gives it hope for a better outcome, ditto it's puppet states.
they don't have to, they just have to win abroad and then wait for their arms build up to allow them to project power.

Sure the US still exists, but that doesn't automatically make it more powerful than both Germany and Japan.
 
i'm assuming a Japanese victory, otherwise this question would be pointless;
how about instead of everytime you can't think of a way to make something happen, you try and find a way instead of just saying ASB

I'm not here to do your work for you. :) YOU need to show this ain't ASB. Japan can't beat the US anyway, anyhow: an axis victory probably needs that you have both the US and the USSR undergo civil wars or something close to that in scale so that they are effectively crippled and the Nazis can get the jump on nuclear weapons and delivery systems. And then for a cold war you need to further compund the insanity by having the Germans somehow forget to nuke the now unecessary and possibly threatening Japanese when they start making atom weapons of their own.

Bruce
 
they don't have to, they just have to win abroad and then wait for their arms build up to allow them to project power.

Sure the US still exists, but that doesn't automatically make it more powerful than both Germany and Japan.

The US economy at the start of the great depression was LARGER THAN ALL OF EUROPE PUT TOGETHER. If Germany manages to eventually make its European order into something other than a clusterfuck they might be a semi-credible competitor, but 1940s Japan is barely richer than Mexico and runs a bunch of third-world peasant states; They're not going to be a major increase in Axis power for a while. And logistics means that the US can PWN them both in its own hemisphere, even if we take as a given the incredible improbability of the US sitting around twiddling its thumbs while they pull a (highly unlikely) victory in Eurasia.

Bruce
 
Building up to invade the USA?

That means the USA also has years to prepare for the coming invasion. Against foes that might be its economic rival. If the timeline goes out of its way to fix every single problem with both Germany and Japan. Even if that is done, you're suggesting a successful invasion of a fellow superpower, over mammoth lines of communication, who has the population and preparedness to swamp your invasion.
 
Building up to invade the USA?

That means the USA also has years to prepare for the coming invasion. Against foes that might be its economic rival. If the timeline goes out of its way to fix every single problem with both Germany and Japan. Even if that is done, you're suggesting a successful invasion of a fellow superpower, over mammoth lines of communication, who has the population and preparedness to swamp your invasion.

AKA Never.Gonna.Happen.
 
Assuming the US is/was in economic shambles and the USSR is just rump buffer state between German Europe and Japanese Empire, how would the two nations in question able to influence, say, the US?

I mean...
How can we tell that this US already alligned with Japan, and this US with Germany?
In OTL, it's easy with different ideology and economic system, so how about in this ATL?
 
Assuming the US is/was in economic shambles and the USSR is just rump buffer state between German Europe and Japanese Empire, how would the two nations in question able to influence, say, the US?

I mean...
How can we tell that this US already alligned with Japan, and this US with Germany?
In OTL, it's easy with different ideology and economic system, so how about in this ATL?
Neither, the US will do its own thing and defends its hemisphere, cut the US in half and realistically it still out-muscles Japan and Germany put together, they will try trading with the US, maybe conducting talks but they can't really do anything major with it
 
Alright, how about a third position on the sort that happened in the real Cold War, either with De Gaulle dropping up various African dictators, supporitng Quebec, and vetoing British entry into European groups or something like how the Chinese started turning pink rather than red. Would the Italians or a remnant union of Dominions or colonies work? Perhaps allowing the mass expulsion of non integral able Europeans to Africa by the Germans, though they are honestly more likely to just put them into forced labor. Why they should care about making Western Europeans into factory workers when they killed Jews and Eastern Europeans by the millions even with their own labour shortage... Nazis were not particularly good planners.
 
Japan / Germany could not win WW2 without the most epic of FUBAR's like, say, ACW Part 2 + tons of other stuff. Neither Germany or Japan (or FWIW, the whole of the rest of the world combined) can successfully invade the US without the US being so smashed by... whatever... that it's not at all worth taking, and if Yellowstone Erupts the world is pretty fucked and not really going to be in a major war state when everyone is starving. OR they are, for some reason, invited in by a faction.

You would have to change the Imperial Japanese a lot to get something like an Indian Revolt or enough stability in occupied / conquered China to not eventually just become exhausted by the manpower black hole that it is.

I guess you COULD have some weird thing with a POD in the 20's where Hitler somehow still comes to power with the whole of Europe going fascist while Japan's Taisho Emperor lives a lot longer (somehow) and also prevents Japan from falling into a militarist dictatorship. Alternately, you have someone other than the asshole Hirohito coming to power and continuing Japanese democracy and forging an alliance with the US/China in an anti colonialist bloc vs Nazi/fascist Europe with the US preferring isolationism and thus ceding leadership to Japan. But that would be liberal Japan vs Nazis.
 
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Somewhere, in an alternate timeline where the the U.S. stayed out of the Great War but the Entente still pulls off a victory, the United States spends the alternate WWII fighting the British Empire in War Plan Red and buying off the Japanese from the Anglo-Japanese alliance, thus allowing the Not Nazis to win out in Europe and Eurasia and the Japanese to build its empire in the Pacific.

Then you get a three-way cold war between the United States and satellite states of the UK and former British Empire, the Not Reich, and the Empire of Japan.

Of course that wouldn't really be enough time, the time it would take for the United States to utterly defeat the British Empire, for the Notzis to completely beat the Soviet Union, so I guess you would still have the Soviets there too.

It would be an interesting dystopia in that by making a really poor judgement on the whole "British Empire seems less reasonable than those German guys that want to reestablish the greater reich" thing, the United States would have created a world with three very powerful totalitarian empires.
 
Would the United States be against monarchism in that case? ON at same issue, would they want the dominions to take up any British colonies nearby and to adopt presidential systems government or would they by content letting it go as it currently was, perhaps with someone new in the position of Governor General? However it is done I sense great difficulty in carving up Africa, which might have the Sub Saharan areas filled with American backed republics and some small European Rumps. Heck, the Americans might set up their own Blacks as e ruling class like it ended up in Liberia while filling their own land with various Europen whites to keep their country pale. Might be more difficult to keep them as underpaid labourers, though.
 
I'm not here to do your work for you. :) YOU need to show this ain't ASB. Japan can't beat the US anyway, anyhow: an axis victory probably needs that you have both the US and the USSR undergo civil wars or something close to that in scale so that they are effectively crippled and the Nazis can get the jump on nuclear weapons and delivery systems. And then for a cold war you need to further compund the insanity by having the Germans somehow forget to nuke the now unecessary and possibly threatening Japanese when they start making atom weapons of their own.

Bruce
i didn't start this topic, so i'm not going to think over how Japan and Germany win, your not doing my work for me just repeating the same thing that everyone says so in a way your just reproducing other peoples work.
I came to talk about the cold war between Germany and Japan, i didn't start the damn topic I just added my two cents of how a cold war could start between the Axis victors.
the OP didn't ask how
 
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If OTL Cold War is easy with distinct difference between US' capitalism and USSR's communism, but if the Third Reich and Imperial Japan gone into a similar "silent conflict" period, how would they do it?

How can we know that this country alligned with Europe and the others to Japan? I mean, what the distinction between the two's ideologies?

Thanks in advance!

I think it might turn hot at the physical border:

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("Legion then ducked as hundreds of Alien Space Bats were thrown at him...")
 
I think it might turn hot at the physical border:


("Legion then ducked as hundreds of Alien Space Bats were thrown at him...")

Yes, but... I was asking about the Cold War, the silent confrontation, the proxy conflicts, etc
How Germany and Japan spread their influence

Soo, can Japan spread its ideology to, say, apartheid South Africa (I assume apartheid, since there's no equal rights movement) or Argentina?
Or even Scandinavian countries, the backyard of "Aryanism"?
 
Assuming all the big players survive the war in some form and develop nuclear weapons...

The Axis is in North Africa and the Middle-East, and of course has Eurasia from the Ukraine to the Atlantic to play with.

The British have the run of the Sub-Saharan Africa, and several post-Raj states in India(East Pakistan, West Pakistan, a Sikh state, Burma), in addition to Singapore and ANZAC territory. They had to accept Indian independence and the loss of most European possessions in the Pacific to Japan.

The Japanese and Soviet Union compete for the ear of Congress India, but with the Japanese fully committed in China and Russia cowering behind the Urals neither are in the position to waste resources bickering over Northern China and Mongolia.

The United States had plenty of time to reverse the Good Neighbor policy and carve up much of the Americas into satellites and territories, preserving the fiction of not joining in the European war by ostensibly aiding the British and the French exiles in the exaggerated threat of the South American Axis. Hegemony in Brazil and Argentina is a manpower sink, not stable like Haiti or Nicaragua have become after massive repression.

Which leads us to the intrigue -
To start with, Japan has basing rights in Peru and Chile, has secret armies poised to strike Burma, Singapore, and northern Australia, and has a mostly unsuccessful go of arming rebels in British Africa from Singapore. The Philippines is in the unique position of having a government firmly in the pocket of Japan but still being a military outpost of the United States.

America arms decolonial movements in British Africa in lieu of the weakened Soviets, who they also keep alive with a constant flow of supplies. The fact that the British helped themselves to survive the war by selling oil to Japan to undermine the American embargo played into later realpolitik of preventing global nuclear war by preventing any one power from getting too strong or weak, with the Soviets being too weak for their liking. There is also Canada, the pervasive influence of German propaganda in defaming the British in American eyes (though failing to make Americans love Germany), and the British intervention in Argentina (to secure grain supplies) despite it being a Latin Axis member won for the US sphere of influence by the blood of American soldiers. The Americans are the giant in the room, and German military strategists expect the entire world to eventually be divided between the World Axis and American influence.

In that vein, the British are trying to fill that role. If China has to wait 50 years, it will fall to either communists politically sympathetic to a Russia that is a dog of the United States or to a republican regime itself a dog of the United States. Therefore a steady stream of British smuggling to Hong Kong and other Chinese ports exists. In turn the Japanese keep trying to get Congress India to go for reconquista of the Pakistans and Burma.

The Germans, after carving up Arabia by turning on their Arab war-time allies (they are Semites after all) and securing control of the oil resources, set up a friendly regime in Aryan Persia; from where they arm fringe movements in northern India and West Pakistan. And they consistently prove to the world that they will be one of the two last superpowers by showing their fanatic determination, even in the face of nuclear apocalypse, such as failing to blink in the Irish missile crisis (the German missiles stayed, the British countered with a nuclear platform in geosynchronous orbit above Berlin).

In summary the United States is a victim of its own success, mired in the occupation of Brazil and other areas in the Americas; Germany has all the living room and oil it ever wanted, and is accordingly ossified and static, simply waiting for the final war that will give it the world (or wipe it off the face of the planet, which is where the proposed Lunar and Martian colonies fit in); the British Empire, even by consolidating Sub-Saharan Africa and its immense natural resources, is still without comparatively loyal Indian manpower a tinpot, a tinpot of great scientific achievement and military skill, but a tinpot none the less; the Soviets are a garrison state that builds lots and lots of nukes and relies on U.S. aide, essentially the lynchpin in the United States nuclear umbrella aimed against Japan and Germany; and the Japanese have as much raw materials and manpower between Indomalaya and China as they can use, but only room for so much technological process, so much industrially development, and essentially their brightest future still involves spending the rest of the century cementing their grip in China rather than expanding into space or winning the technological arms race.
 
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