Question : Most like fate of Surviving Vinland

[Ridwan Asher]

Will it be :

1) A fiercely isolationist Norse society that refuses contact until the dawn of European Exploration Era ?

2) Sparse contact with Europe through visiting western European fishermen ?

3) Anything that DOES NOT result in Norse United States. Perhaps very limited expansion in the mainland, to Acadia most likely, after centuries of arrival in Newfoundland, and the limited, recently begun contact with Great Lakes region by the time of european first formal visit ?

 

[Johnrankins]

It probably turns into a fishing colony of the Norse with perhaps some whaling and timber. It never expands far from the longboats and is almost entirely island based. There may be a few outposts along the mainland shoreline. They are small and never very far inland. My assumptions are that the natives can't compete on the ocean but the Norse can't defeat the numbers of natives inland.

 

[Faeelin]

Why would the Natives unite to expel the Norse? Native Americans didn't do this in OTL...

 

[Johnrankins]

Why would the Natives unite to expel the Norse? Native Americans didn't do this in OTL...

They wouldn't have to unite if the Norse are too aggressive. If they cross multiple tribe boundaries they will have to fight multiple tribes.

 

[Faeelin]

They wouldn't have to unite if the Norse are too aggressive. If they cross multiple tribe boundaries they will have to fight multiple tribes.

We're talking about a process that will take a century at least though, by which time the Norse will be well established. I wouldn't count out more Norse-Indian mixing than you saw in British North America, either...

 

[Ridwan Asher]

Why would the Natives unite to expel the Norse? Native Americans didn't do this in OTL...

They're whites. The only way for various native nations of Americas to barely match a group of Europeans one twentieth the average size of one local tribe is for those to build a common front against the big-nosed immigrants, which is impossible because they're not white and thus will pave the way for a completely white Eastern Seaboard for the later European explorers to discover.


On the serious note, I like Johnrankins' answer. It definitely sounds the most normal outcome of Vinland colony surviving.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

We're talking about a process that will take a century at least though, by which time the Norse will be well established. I wouldn't count out more Norse-Indian mixing than you saw in British North America, either...

Yeah, they will likely abduct native women on regular basis to uphold their population.

 

[ramones1986]

An isolated fishing colony with an interesting mix of Inuit and Norsemen culture.

 

[Faeelin]

They're whites. The only way for various native nations of Americas to barely match a group of Europeans one twentieth the average size of one local tribe is for those to build a common front against the big-nosed immigrants, which is impossible because they're not white and thus will pave the way for a completely white Eastern Seaboard for the later European explorers to discover.

I don't get your point at all here.

Look, we know what Native Americans did when they first met white colonists; some who thought they would benefit made alliances with them and tried to use them to their own ends. This happened in Mexico, it happened in Virginia, it happened in Massachussetts...

 

[Umbral]

I am not sure there is a "most likly" scenario here. Things would be very finly balanced and could go down very differently based on tiny differences. Like some Norse having good chemistry with some Native tribe, or bad incidents with another.

Also depends on where they settled, and how many people they got from Greenland.

Contrary to the popular image of the Norse, they were able to get along with neighbours. I.e. people who could reach them. Superior ship tech allowed them to reach people who could not reach them back, and that was when the Vikings acted up.

From recent discussions here, it seems that the Newfoundland natives were an extremly low-density population. It is quite possible that the Norse could have matched or exceded their numbers through immigration alone.

I could see a fishing/cattle based Newfoundland doing kindof well.
European fisherman might not get an initial foothold at the Grand Banks.

Ans as always...when the natives start picking up Norse tech, the entire game changes.

 

[Johnrankins]

We're talking about a process that will take a century at least though, by which time the Norse will be well established. I wouldn't count out more Norse-Indian mixing than you saw in British North America, either...

I wouldn't count that out either.

 

[ATL Czar]

IMO, if Vinland was successfully established in New Brunswick/Nova Scotia, and in Markland and bases in Helluland, it would end up like a sort of Metis culture trading post, independent from the rest of Scandinavia. Fishermen would come by often, and it would remain that way for a couple more centuries.

However, when the rest of Europe advances enough to build ships to sail straight to North America without land-hopping, you would see a slightly earlier Age of Colonisation. Though the Native Americans would likely be better prepared against the Europeans, having some Norse Technology i.e. weapons, and maybe anti-bodies against smallpox.

 

[Lalli]

I think that when colonisation begin, England, France or some else European country takes Vinland leastly as vassal state, most probably as colony whose might have some kind of autonomy.

 

[Faeelin]

I think that when colonisation begin, England, France or some else European country takes Vinland leastly as vassal state, most probably as colony whose might have some kind of autonomy.

Would they be able to? It will be a Christian state with metallurgy and horses.

 

[ATL Czar]

Would they be able to? It will be a Christian state with metallurgy and horses.

Also, it would have a fairly large population of Native Americans to help them. Not to mention that any European country would have to disembark where they could be easily defeated by the Vinlandics et al

 

[Isot the Terrible]

Gradual expansion untill the age of exploration, probably reaching Lake Huron and the Potomac. Sparse contact with Europe via Iceland.

 

[Faeelin]

Don't forget that the Norse are showing up at a point when the maize-bean-squash agricultural system is still in flux across the northeast. Native American peoples will accordingly be somewhat less sophisticated.

 

[Thoresby]

None of the other. A hybridized "native" tribe inhabiting Newfoundland and maybe PEI and bits New Brunswick. They'd speak a language similar Afrikaans in that it would be a Germanic base but with lots of native (in this case Native American) vocabulary. A highly intermixed population that would be distinct from other Native Americans but not Scandinavian either.

 

[mowque]

They'll get absorbed into the local communities fairly quickly I think.

 

[Virginia Liberal]

The three big things have been touch here ie: Horses, Germs, Iron/steel weapons. Contact with the Norse would bring all three so the natives will be a lot better off come the 15th, and 16th centuries.