Question i would like some help with please.

How is it that France and other parts of Catholic Europe ending up not being part of the HRE.
Yes i know Charlemagnes Empire was divided again and again.

Did the Kingdoms and Dukedoms that became France, officially leave the HRE or what how did it happen.
 
How is it that France and other parts of Catholic Europe ending up not being part of the HRE.
Yes i know Charlemagnes Empire was divided again and again.

Did the Kingdoms and Dukedoms that became France, officially leave the HRE or what how did it happen.

It's more like they just faded away until the Emperor (in Italy) became irrelevant. Then the German provinces reconstituted the title in the first part of the tenth century
 
How is it that France and other parts of Catholic Europe ending up not being part of the HRE.
Yes i know Charlemagnes Empire was divided again and again.

Did the Kingdoms and Dukedoms that became France, officially leave the HRE or what how did it happen.

In terms of France, the reason you mention is the main reason. Charlemagne's empire was divided again and again, and subsequent Kings managed to reunite parts of it, but never the entirety.

As for places like what is now Spain, Poland etc, they were never part of Charlemagne's Empire. They had been separate kingdoms since the original Roman Empire fell many centuries earlier.
 
Hmm... could it have transpired that the HRE was like a club that gave real benefits, so all the European kings wanted to be part of it.

Sorry but this is by the following that i wtrite below, mixed up with another question i asked - different forum, same queston.

Or letting imaginations fly.
What if Leo had - lots of trickery, maybe he gets Charlie really drunk LOL -
gotten Charlemagne to crown the Pope head of a different HRE, playing on his ego, one that by definition all Catholic lands were part of.
 
Hmm... could it have transpired that the HRE was like a club that gave real benefits, so all the European kings wanted to be part of it.

Sorry but this is by the following that i wtrite below, mixed up with another question i asked - different forum, same queston.

Or letting imaginations fly.
What if Leo had - lots of trickery, maybe he gets Charlie really drunk LOL -
gotten Charlemagne to crown the Pope head of a different HRE, playing on his ego, one that by definition all Catholic lands were part of.

Since I responded to the second part of this in the other thread...

I'm not sure what kind of benefits you'd have (for kings). But I suppose you could have something where the HRE includes all of western Christendom, as a legacy of when strong emperors made it really be a successor to the Western Roman Empire.

But that's not quite the same thing.
 
Hmm... could it have transpired that the HRE was like a club that gave real benefits, so all the European kings wanted to be part of it.

Not really. By nature, royal leaders want their independence and don't want to owe fealty to anyone else. So the Holy Roman Emperor might claim Lordship over, say, Aragon, but the King of Aragon is going to reject the allegiance.

Or letting imaginations fly.
What if Leo had - lots of trickery, maybe he gets Charlie really drunk LOL -
gotten Charlemagne to crown the Pope head of a different HRE, playing on his ego, one that by definition all Catholic lands were part of.

I might be mistaken, but I think the Holy Roman Emperor theoretically was the sovereign power over all of what was once Rome. It just didn't count for much as he didn't have the power to back it up, and thus wasn't accepted as such.
 
Not really. By nature, royal leaders want their independence and don't want to owe fealty to anyone else. So the Holy Roman Emperor might claim Lordship over, say, Aragon, but the King of Aragon is going to reject the allegiance.

On the other hand, the Kings of Bohemia were part of the HRE. A fairly well established part of its institutions in its final years as something like a state, as it turns out.

And its not as if nonroyal leaders want independence less, but I digress.
 
How is it that France and other parts of Catholic Europe ending up not being part of the HRE.
Yes i know Charlemagnes Empire was divided again and again.

Did the Kingdoms and Dukedoms that became France, officially leave the HRE or what how did it happen.

Well, hello, Victoria, and welcome to the forums. Please, enjoy your stay.
 
France stayed in the HRE until 887. The emperor Charles the Fat, Charlemagne's great-grandson, who was simultaneously king of France, Germany and Italy, was deposed that year and the empire broke up. An illegitimate nephew (Arnulf) became king of Germany, a non-Carolingian (Odo) became king of France and other rulers proclaimed themselves kings of Upper Burgundy, Lower Burgundy and Italy. Arnulf claimed the imperial title, but the other kings didn't recognize him as having any authority over them.

When the HRE was revived in the mid-900s by Otto I, it included Germany and Italy. France (now ruled by Carolingians again) was outside it and never came back in.
 
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