Question: Best places for Dutch defense in WWII

Some backstory.
In the time line I am currently writing the netherlands an alternate-history the Netherlands is well prepared for the German invasion in 1940. They are also slightly more powerful and have recently (March 1940) signed a co-defense pact with Belgium and Luxembourg, though there is not enough time to prepare any sort of joint doctrine.

Lets say the Dutch army is around a quarter of a million men strong, supported well by tanks, armored cars and artillery. As well as a strong airforce. And that a majority of these men and their equipment will be deployed along the border with Germany. For those of you who wish to know lets say Belgium has a round half a million men at arms and tiny Luxembourg, larger ITTL, has around fifty thousand men. Each significantly less well equipped than the Dutch army.

Assuming the Germans attack in mid April, and the Dutch gave themselves adequate time to prepare their positions what would the best places be to fight the Wehrmacht from a defensive point of view. Looking at my map I would assume Winssgoten, Venlo and Echt would all be good cities to fortify along the border, and some of the Rhine`s tributaries might also make good defensive positions.

Other than that I have no clue, I am not Dutch. Or even European so my knowledge of the geography of the region is poor at best. I also have no idea what areas the Germans might consider vital to capture.
 
In general, the easiest is to rely on the OTL defence plans.

There are several options.

The first relies on defending the Meuse/IJssel crossings so the line runs Zwolle-Deventer-Arnhem-Nijmegen-Venlo-Maastricht; the big disadvantage is that it can be hit by the Germans on hour 1 of an invasion (so little ability to alert even mobilized and pre-positioned troops. The advantage is that it defends most of the Netherlands. It has a decent fallback position behind the IJssel (the Veluwe) where German forces crossing the mud would face Dutch troops on sloping hills overlooking said mud; however it's imperfectly muddy.

The second relies on the Grebbeberg/Utrechtse Heuvelrug, coupled with the Peel-Raam stelling. This defends a line just east of Utrecht (where Dutch troops on the next hills, the Utrechtse Heuvelrug, face Germans crossing almost perfectly muddy ground), south to the Rhine, and then across to where-ever. Historically it was linked to the Peel-Raamstelling, a succession of fortified positions inbetween swampy grounds, but it was always imperfect and had a gaping hole on its south (known as Belgium; they could've extended it). There are more places where a similar line could be erected, Tiel-Den Bosch-Tilburg would also be possible with a bit of construction work, but both lines are imperfect.

A third option in the south, which works somewhat with the Grebbeberg but not very well, is to withdraw all southern forces to Fortress Holland defending Moerdijk and the Waal. This is the strongest water barrier, but it's a rather long flank and of course disconnects the Dutch entirely from Belgium/France. It works if you're just trying to make the Germans go south past Holland, but if you're trying to stop them (or if the Germans are not going for anything further south before taking Holland) it's not ideal.

Hence option four, the 'Waterlinie' option, is to dig in west through Utrecht and into the swamps/lakes of Muiden, Naarden, south through Vianen to join the Waal and the Biesbosch. Furthest back leaving many important cities outside the Dutch defences, but when well prepared with inundations it's HARD to capture; small driveways leading inbetween ankle-to-knee-deep water, so you didn't get much chance to outflank it by boat either. Germans didn't use paratroopers to attack the bridges in the south (that could outflank it, though unlikely to if this is the main Dutch defensive position - the bridges will be better defended and the defenders will have itchier trigger fingers on blowing them up) because they thought it'd be easy to beat :)

All of it usually combined with defending the Afsluitdijk, because well, it's easy to defend; on the eastern end it had fortresses overlooking land that was very open, exposed, and muddy; on the western end (not preferable) you'd lose control of some of the water level of inundations, but would have to defend a single dam, tens of kilometres long, which has a road about 1 vehicle wide (plus some grass around it for infantry, though they'd be damned exposed).
 
Hi,

I am dutch and have spend quite some time analysing the May Day's, and my conclusion is that the best place for the Netherlands to defend against a Nazi invasion is Jakarta.:'(

While in OTL the Grebbelinie held for some time and could have held out longer if proper supplies and reserves had been available. The Peel line was penetrated by an armoured train in roughly the first 5 min of the war. As it was just way to close to the border.

However all this would be irrelevant as the Netherlands is just a sitting duck to the Luftwaffe. Only Amsterdam and Den Hague had any AA stationed and even that would not have stopped a determined attack. All the other cities where wide open to the terror attacks as carried out against Rotterdam. If I remember correctly time to target for the bombers was around 15 min from take off.:confounded:

So unless your preparations include some 500 top level interceptors. We Dutchies are doomed. :'(:'(:mad:
 
Lets say the Dutch army is around a quarter of a million men strong,
dutch ww1 era mobilisation strength was half a million, the size of the army in otl after mobilisation pre-ww2 was 280K
for comparison, belgium had a mobilisation strength of 600K, so i think with a stronger military and bigger area a mobilisation strength of 500-600K is realistic (and comparing with the 500K from ww1 era otl , it might be as high as 700k)
 
Hi,

I am dutch and have spend quite some time analysing the May Day's, and my conclusion is that the best place for the Netherlands to defend against a Nazi invasion is Jakarta.:'(

While in OTL the Grebbelinie held for some time and could have held out longer if proper supplies and reserves had been available. The Peel line was penetrated by an armoured train in roughly the first 5 min of the war. As it was just way to close to the border.

However all this would be irrelevant as the Netherlands is just a sitting duck to the Luftwaffe. Only Amsterdam and Den Hague had any AA stationed and even that would not have stopped a determined attack. All the other cities where wide open to the terror attacks as carried out against Rotterdam. If I remember correctly time to target for the bombers was around 15 min from take off.:confounded:

So unless your preparations include some 500 top level interceptors. We Dutchies are doomed. :'(:'(:mad:
In my time line the Dutch have roughly six hundred aircraft. Roughly five hundred of which are fighters, mostly of the Koolhaven K.D. 58 type. The army has a large number of tanks, armored cars and mobile anti-tank guns. And I revised the figures for the army somewhat. The Netherlands has roughly a quarter of a million men in it. Much more realistic. Also Jakarta, not a bad idea.
 
In my time line the Dutch have roughly six hundred aircraft. Roughly five hundred of which are fighters, mostly of the Koolhaven K.D. 58 type. The army has a large number of tanks, armored cars and mobile anti-tank guns. And I revised the figures for the army somewhat. The Netherlands has roughly a quarter of a million men in it. Much more realistic. Also Jakarta, not a bad idea.
i take it you mean the Koolhoven FK58 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koolhoven_F.K.58

actually as i wrote already half a million is way more realistic, the otl number was already 280K.
so with more military drive & assertivity, half a million is very realistic, even 600K would be.
Paramaribo is an even better option, totally out of harms way
 
Do take into account that during the 1914 mobilization there where serious troubles in the economy and the agriculture because so much manpower had been taken into the army.
With roughly 5 million citizens you are talking 1 in 10 under arms if you mobilize 500000.
 
Do take into account that during the 1914 mobilization there where serious troubles in the economy and the agriculture because so much manpower had been taken into the army.
With roughly 5 million citizens you are talking 1 in 10 under arms if you mobilize 500000.
you have seen the map of his tl?
the netherlands of this timeline includes most of belgian limburg and antwerp

https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...e-history-part-i.400967/page-12#post-14129964

i looked at the 1930s demographics, and antwerp adds, 1,2M, limburg 361k
so with the chunks of vlaams-brabant and oost-vlaanderen added i estimate an extra population of 1,8M
population of the netherlands end '30s was 8,9M. So this is a total of 10,7M
http://tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/population/benelux.htm

another thing to realise if the netherlands is more militaristic, also expect a sizeable expansion of the KNIL (dutch east-indies army)
 
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A question that I have is why did the Dutch and Belgians not want an alliance with France and the UK prior to German invasion? Was it because they did not like the French? Were they afraid that alliance would outright provoke the Germans? Or was it both?
 
A question that I have is why did the Dutch and Belgians not want an alliance with France and the UK prior to German invasion? Was it because they did not like the French? Were they afraid that alliance would outright provoke the Germans? Or was it both?
In my TL the Netherlands had a PM who got the country into an alliance with the Germans. Belgium and Luxembourg were counting on neutrality to protect them. When Germany invaded Poland the PM wanted to declare war on the allies and invade Belgium and Luxembourg. The Staaten Generaal turned him down though and he tried to lead a coup to get what he wanted. It failed though and he died in exile in Germany.
The new government then realized that eventually Germany would invade, as did Belgium and Luxembourg. The three countries signed an alliance, but as you said they did not ally with France and Britain because they did not want to provoke the Germans into invading before the absolute last moment possible.
 
So I just read your TL nice work by the way. In this scenario I would place the defences as follows.

Skirmisher line along the border manned by the Border Guards(the Marechaussee), who at that time where fast motorized units. Real speed freaks with lots of high speed chases along the back roads. To delay the German advance also excellent troops for hit and run attacks.

My choice for main line of defence is;

1. Afsluitdijk as noted before with the forts on the dijk and the forts at Den Helder there is no way the Germans can take it.

2. The Grebbelinie as OTL from the IJsselmeer to Rhennen

a. Would add a forward line of resistance along the IJssel in order to delay the advance further.

3. A line of fortifications from Rhennen to Maasbommel the area in front can be flooded.

4. The Maas Line, this line is extremely close to the border however seeing as the Dutch army now consists of regulars. Who can be prepositioned in fortifications along this line during peace time it should be doable. (be very wary of surprise attacks)

5. The Canal Line from Maastricht along OTL Albertkanaal back to Antwerp. However in this case I would redesign the course of the canal so it would start to the south of Maastrich and end in the Schelde to the South of Antwerp.

6. Fortress Antwerp mainly as OTL but now with additional defences near Hulst, in Zeeuws Vlaanderen(the little part of the Netherlands to the south of the Schelde estuary)

Large fortress complexes should be positioned around Antwerp and Maastricht. I would also place fortresses at Doornenburg(where the Nederrijn meets the Waal), Appeldoorn cross roads infront of the Grebbelinie, Hasselt and Herentals both along the Albertkanaal.

Second line of defence(National Redoubt)

1. Still in the north the Afsluitdijk

2. OTL Nieuwe Hollandse Waterlinie

3. A new line from the south of the Waterlinie, then to the east of Breda and on to Heretals where it will meet the Canal Line, should probably dig a new canal as part of the defensive works.

4. Fortress Antwerp as above.

A big advantage is that most of the lines are either behind flooded areas, rivers or canals. Second advantage is should part of the main line be breached, either the north or south of the Waal you could fall back to the second line in the area affected but still hold the Main Line on the other side of the Waal.

Also note that where the OTL Grebbelinie as executed in 1939 yielded 8½ of the then 11 provinces, this new line will yield far less. It will additionally shield Noord-Brabant, Zeeland, Antwerp, Vlaams Limburg and parts of Dutch Limburg west of the Maas. These include some major populated and industrial areas.

Disadvantage is that the main line is roughly 300 km long with parts only 3 km from the border.


PS. as small note on the naming of the naval ships in your TL, Den Haag does not have city rights. And would therefore not qualify as a name for a cityclass ship, maybe go with Antwerp instead.
 
So I just read your TL nice work by the way. In this scenario I would place the defences as follows.

Skirmisher line along the border manned by the Border Guards(the Marechaussee), who at that time where fast motorized units. Real speed freaks with lots of high speed chases along the back roads. To delay the German advance also excellent troops for hit and run attacks.

My choice for main line of defence is;

1. Afsluitdijk as noted before with the forts on the dijk and the forts at Den Helder there is no way the Germans can take it.

2. The Grebbelinie as OTL from the IJsselmeer to Rhennen

a. Would add a forward line of resistance along the IJssel in order to delay the advance further.

3. A line of fortifications from Rhennen to Maasbommel the area in front can be flooded.

4. The Maas Line, this line is extremely close to the border however seeing as the Dutch army now consists of regulars. Who can be prepositioned in fortifications along this line during peace time it should be doable. (be very wary of surprise attacks)

5. The Canal Line from Maastricht along OTL Albertkanaal back to Antwerp. However in this case I would redesign the course of the canal so it would start to the south of Maastrich and end in the Schelde to the South of Antwerp.

6. Fortress Antwerp mainly as OTL but now with additional defences near Hulst, in Zeeuws Vlaanderen(the little part of the Netherlands to the south of the Schelde estuary)

Large fortress complexes should be positioned around Antwerp and Maastricht. I would also place fortresses at Doornenburg(where the Nederrijn meets the Waal), Appeldoorn cross roads infront of the Grebbelinie, Hasselt and Herentals both along the Albertkanaal.

Second line of defence(National Redoubt)

1. Still in the north the Afsluitdijk

2. OTL Nieuwe Hollandse Waterlinie

3. A new line from the south of the Waterlinie, then to the east of Breda and on to Heretals where it will meet the Canal Line, should probably dig a new canal as part of the defensive works.

4. Fortress Antwerp as above.

A big advantage is that most of the lines are either behind flooded areas, rivers or canals. Second advantage is should part of the main line be breached, either the north or south of the Waal you could fall back to the second line in the area affected but still hold the Main Line on the other side of the Waal.

Also note that where the OTL Grebbelinie as executed in 1939 yielded 8½ of the then 11 provinces, this new line will yield far less. It will additionally shield Noord-Brabant, Zeeland, Antwerp, Vlaams Limburg and parts of Dutch Limburg west of the Maas. These include some major populated and industrial areas.

Disadvantage is that the main line is roughly 300 km long with parts only 3 km from the border.


PS. as small note on the naming of the naval ships in your TL, Den Haag does not have city rights. And would therefore not qualify as a name for a cityclass ship, maybe go with Antwerp instead.
Glad you like it the TL and thanks for your suggestions, also thanks for the Den Haag clarification. Thats fixed to Antwerpen now.
 
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