Query: York princesses and legitimacy

HRH Cecily

HRH Cecily

Two unrelated questions involving the York girls:

One: Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville had plans to make important matches all across Europe (basically every single one of their kids except Margaret and George who died as babies). For various reasons, none of these matches occurred. Assuming any of the girls were married and queens of somewhere at the time, could Richard still have managed to declare them illegitimate? Would it have mattered which country where one was queen (say Cecily in Scotland vs. Elizabeth in France)?

Two: If Elizabeth of York were going to be made Queen Regnant, who would be a good consort for her?
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

HRH Cecily said:
Two unrelated questions involving the York girls:

One: Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville had plans to make important matches all across Europe (basically every single one of their kids except Margaret and George who died as babies). For various reasons, none of these matches occurred. Assuming any of the girls were married and queens of somewhere at the time, could Richard still have managed to declare them illegitimate? Would it have mattered which country where one was queen (say Cecily in Scotland vs. Elizabeth in France)?

Two: If Elizabeth of York were going to be made Queen Regnant, who would be a good consort for her?
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King James of Scotland.
 

Kellan Sullivan

HRH Cecily said:
Two unrelated questions involving the York girls:

One: Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville had plans to make important matches all across Europe (basically every single one of their kids except Margaret and George who died as babies). For various reasons, none of these matches occurred. Assuming any of the girls were married and queens of somewhere at the time, could Richard still have managed to declare them illegitimate? Would it have mattered which country where one was queen (say Cecily in Scotland vs. Elizabeth in France)?

Two: If Elizabeth of York were going to be made Queen Regnant, who would be a good consort for her?
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To aanswer question one. There was only ONE reason they didn't go on to marry abroad. It's called a king who wasn't their dad. Dickon may have declared them illegitimate but he still planned to marry Liz of York off abroad (at least). It was Henry VII who didn't want them wedding anyone abroad that a foreign king could CLAIM England.

Its very difficult - if it involves the queen of France/Queen of the Romans (Liz), Queen of Denmark (Mary) and Queen of Scots (Cis), the ones who COULD'VE been married or at least already sent abroad by 1483 - to issue a statement denouncing them as bastards.
 
FalconHonour

FalconHonour

Yeah, if Edward had managed to secure any one of his older daughters a match abroad before 1483 - Elizabeth to France, Mary to Denmark or Cecily to Scotland, then Richard would no doubt have had a much harder time seizing power. No foreign country would have accepted their Queen being branded a bastard - at least not lying down.

Not to mention that the Chroniclers seem to have thought that Edward IV took Elizabeth's being jilted by the French extremely hard, that it plunged him into a kind of depression over the winter of 1482-1483. If that didn't happen, what's to say he wouldn't have survived his illness of April 1483 and clung on at least another year or two, to give Edward V a little more time to grow up/build a power base of his own...
 
FalconHonour

FalconHonour

As for the suggestions of a consort for Elizabeth if she reigned alone, I could see the Duke of Albany being suggested, if he doesn't marry Anne de La Tour/Cecily of York. He'd provide the Scottish Alliance without the risk of a personal union of England and Scotland...
 
HRH Cecily

HRH Cecily

Duke of Albany seems like a very good choice; I think James IV might suggest himself but England would already be skittish enough about a Queen Regnant and foreign 'King'. Albany also comes with French connections, not just Scottish, so he does seem like a particularly good choice.

FalconHonour said:
Yeah, if Edward had managed to secure any one of his older daughters a match abroad before 1483 - Elizabeth to France, Mary to Denmark or Cecily to Scotland, then Richard would no doubt have had a much harder time seizing power. No foreign country would have accepted their Queen being branded a bastard - at least not lying down.
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That's what I thought. Could he still have usurped power without declaring the York children bastards? And with the deaths of Edward V and Richard, Duke of York, is the throne likely to go to Richard because male or Elizabeth as oldest girl (whether or not she's married and out of the country may also make a difference, I imagine)?
 

isabella

HRH Cecily said:
Duke of Albany seems like a very good choice; I think James IV might suggest himself but England would already be skittish enough about a Queen Regnant and foreign 'King'. Albany also comes with French connections, not just Scottish, so he does seem like a particularly good choice.



That's what I thought. Could he still have usurped power without declaring the York children bastards? And with the deaths of Edward V and Richard, Duke of York, is the throne likely to go to Richard because male or Elizabeth as oldest girl (whether or not she's married and out of the country may also make a difference, I imagine)?
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The crown by right will go to Elizabeth as the oldest girl, unless her uncle or the husband of a younger sister will usurp her crown
 

isabella

Mikestone8 said:
Even if she's Dauphine of France? I doubt that like the mischief.
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Well her being married to the Dauphin would be for many a very good reason for denying her the English crown as almost nobody in England will want be ruled by France so... plus Maud, daughter of Henry I and mother of Henry II, was unable to stop her cousin Stephen from usurping her crown and the Lancasters were able to usurp and keep the crown for many years over Richard II and the line of Philippa of Clarence so...
 
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