Query: Jewish state post CP victory.

Could a Jewish state exist after a Central Powers victory in WWI?

If so, where would it most likely be located, and what would be the impetus for its creation? Also, does the creation of a Jewish require Fascism to rise beforehand?
 
Could a Jewish state exist after a Central Powers victory in WWI?

If so, where would it most likely be located, and what would be the impetus for its creation? Also, does the creation of a Jewish require Fascism to rise beforehand?

It would require anti-Semitic mass atrocities, at least. That's possible depending on what kind of regime ultimately rises in Russia, though I doubt it'll be on the scale of OTL's holocaust.

If nothing like that happens, then Zionism is just another 19th/20th century movement that ultimately goes nowhere.

I've always wondered if a surviving Ottoman Empire would come around to tolerating Jewish settlement in Palestine. Of course the Ottoman Empire may or may not survive WWI regardless and it may or may not hold on to its Arab territory.

And there were other options besides Palestine for a Jewish state, but none sound plausible to me. Birobidzhan looked promising for a while but ultimately failed.
 
I could see Germany setting up a client state primarily populated and ruled by German Ashkenazi Jews when the Ottomans collapse. Assuming a total CP victory in 14/15.
 
Could a Jewish state exist after a Central Powers victory in WWI?

If so, where would it most likely be located, and what would be the impetus for its creation? Also, does the creation of a Jewish require Fascism to rise beforehand?

A Jewish state created by the Central Powers is not very likely. Both Germany and Austria-Hungary were led by anti-Semites.

Depending on how the war proceeds, the Ottoman might still lose their southern territories to British control in spite of an overall CP victory. If that happens - and especially if the Balfour Declaration has already been made - the British might allow the creation of Israel much like in OTL.
 
It's my favorite historical fallacy, "Zionism was spontaneously generated by the Balfour Declaration and/or Holocaust"!

By 1914, a movement for a Jewish nation had been bubbling around the European Jewish collective conscience for decades. The first World Zionist Congress was in 1897, and Petach Tikva (generally regarded as the first modern Zionist settlement) had been founded in 1878. By 1914 there were about 100,000 Jews in Palestine (mostly European), out of the total of 700,000 or so people.

Note that this well predates the rise of fascism or anything approaching the Holocaust, and the development of Zionism proper even predates the vicious pogroms of 1903-06.

Ottoman authorities were fully aware of the Zionist project and, frankly, mostly ignored it. On the one hand they liked the extra tax income and on the other they didn't really care about the local Arabs. The Young Turks were, in general, in favor of Zionism, both ideologically because they liked European-style nationalism, and also practically because it weakened the Arabs on the periphery of the Empire.

Contrast this with the British, who did their best to keep Arab unrest down and after a few years in control of the territory heavily capped Jewish immigration.

Theodore Herzl had also met with Kaiser Wilhelm II in 1898, reportedly finding the Kaiser lukewarm but not hostile per se to the Zionist cause.

The upshot, of course, is that a Central Power victory would probably see Jewish development in Palestine continue at least as well as OTL, and possible much better. Ottoman authorities will likely at worst ignore the Zionists and at best prop them up against the Arabs. Germany may well provide material support (especially in the form of arms and military training), and could even hypothetically encourage Jewish emmigration from German Poland along a Berlin-Istanbul railway.
 
man authorities were fully aware of the Zionist project and, frankly, mostly ignored it. On the one hand they liked the extra tax income and on the other they didn't really care about the local Arabs. The Young Turks were, in general, in favor of Zionism, both ideologically because they liked European-style nationalism, and also practically because it weakened the Arabs on the periphery of the Empire.

Contrast this with the British, who did their best to keep Arab unrest down and after a few years in control of the territory heavily capped Jewish immigration.

It wasn't so simple. The Ottoman stance was motivated in part by Western pressure and by expectations of support from Jewish financiers. Before the Young Turk revolution, the Ottomans tended to see Jewish settlement as European colonialism and contrary to their pan-Islamic ideology, and undercurrents of that remained. After 1908 the authorities tried to spread Jewish settlement around the empire, including Anatolia and Europe. During WWI the zionists failed to make much headway in lifting the restrictions that still existed. Ottoman armies expelled Jews.

The future of Palestine depends on what happens with the Ottoman's Arab policy post-war. If they get greater autonomy and national rights in the hopes that they'll be pacified, then Zionism is dead.
 
Both Germany and Austria-Hungary were led by anti-Semites.

Austria-Hungarian leadership was the least anti-semitic of all back in the day and the Habsburg were by far the most semito-phillic ruling houses. So I would like you to take that insult towards them back.
 
I honestly can't see a Jewish state in the holy land in the event of a central powers victory. What i can easily see is a deal between Zionists and the central powers with the Zionists getting control over a formerly french colonial possession and forming a Jewish state there.
 
I honestly can't see a Jewish state in the holy land in the event of a central powers victory. What i can easily see is a deal between Zionists and the central powers with the Zionists getting control over a formerly french colonial possession and forming a Jewish state there.

French Algeria had a number of Jews, maybe a Jewish state in (former) French North Africa could work?
 
I honestly can't see a Jewish state in the holy land in the event of a central powers victory. What i can easily see is a deal between Zionists and the central powers with the Zionists getting control over a formerly french colonial possession and forming a Jewish state there.

Honestly, why not? Short of kicking out the Zionists, there's not much the Ottomans can do to be less helpful than the British were. Continued immigration and natural population growth could well see a region of Jewish majority developing, which could eventually push for autonomy and/or independence.

And by 1914 the World Zionist Congree was pretty set on Palestine
 
Austria-Hungarian leadership was the least anti-semitic of all back in the day and the Habsburg were by far the most semito-phillic ruling houses. So I would like you to take that insult towards them back.

Note that I didn't say they were better or worse than anyone in particular. I said that their leader (Emperor Charles I) was an anti-Semite, which he most definitely was. It's a fact, not an 'insult' that can be taken back.

You did, however, make some rather strange claims. Exactly how are the Habsburgs supposed to be "by far the most semito-phillic" dynasty, in spite of the anti-Semitism of Charles I, Franz Ferdinand and various other members such as Archduke Wilhelm and Archduke Albrecht? (the last one wasn't even an old-style bigot, but a genuine fascist and Nazi stooge)

Also, are you claiming that the leaders of, for example, the USA or Britain were more anti-Semitic than that of Austria-Hungary?
 
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