Queen Margaret I of England

[isabella]

Interesting, do you think she’d be okay with that?

If she was widowed well she would be more trouble but I think who James knows very well how manipulating her and well he is her husband, older and more expert than her so she has all the reasons for trusting him... And at that time was usual who for the husbands administrating the inheritance of married women

Hmm that could be quite interesting though how likelt
Is it for Ferdinand to part with Naples?

Not much, but if he want settle Catalina as Queen somewhere is the best solution. If Ferdinand want keep Naples instead Catalina will have a lot of power and influence in both Aragon and Castile and will be likely involved in the scheme for making Ferdinand of Austria the heir of Castile and Aragon instead of his older brother (and that would be a lot of fun, plus if successful would resolve some matches trouble for us)

 

[VVD0D95]

If she was widowed well she would be more trouble but I think who James knows very well how manipulating her and well he is her husband, older and more expert than her so she has all the reasons for trusting him... And at that time was usual who for the husbands administrating the inheritance of married women


Not much, but if he want settle Catalina as Queen somewhere is the best solution. If Ferdinand want keep Naples instead Catalina will have a lot of power and influence in both Aragon and Castile and will be likely involved in the scheme for making Ferdinand of Austria the heir of Castile and Aragon instead of his older brother (and that would be a lot of fun, plus if successful would resolve some matches trouble for us)

Both points are very true, hmm, I am tempted to have her be regent in Castile for her nephew, and maybe have Ferdinand outlive Maximilian as well.
Though now I'm wondering what to do with Ferdinand Duke of Calabria.

 

[isabella]

Both points are very true, hmm, I am tempted to have her be regent in Castile for her nephew, and maybe have Ferdinand outlive Maximilian as well.
Though now I'm wondering what to do with Ferdinand Duke of Calabria.

His OTL fate more or less... sooner or later he will end as governor in some Spanish city and married to Germaine, while Catalina will marry Manuel of Portugal after Maria’s death (third wedding for both of them)

 

[VVD0D95]

His OTL fate more or less... sooner or later he will end as governor in some Spanish city and married to Germaine, while Catalina will marry Manuel of Portugal after Maria’s death (third wedding for both of them)

Hmm interesting and this is true, maybe this time she'll have a successful marriage.

 

[VVD0D95]

So, an updated tree for Louis XII of France

Louis XII of France (b.1452: d.1520) m Anne of Brittany (b.1477: d.1512) m secondly Eleanor of Austria (b.1498)

Issue:

1a) Claude of France (b.1499)

1b) Rene of France (b.1510)

1c) Louis XIII of France (b.1512)

2a) Charles, Duke of Orleans (b.1514)

2b) Joanna of France (b.1515)

2c) Marie of France (b.1517)

 

[VVD0D95]

Here's what I'm thinking in terms of the marriage for Manuel I and Catherine of Aragon

Manuel I of Portugal (b.1469: d. 1521) m Catherine of Aragon (b.1486) in 1518

Issue:

Infante Carlos (b.1519)

Infanta Maria (b.1520)

 

[isabella]

Both sound good for me... Maybe a great scandal behind the wedding of Ferdinand of Calabria and Germaine plus a surviving daughter to marry a son of Ferdinand (of Austria) and Isabella (of Portugal)?

 

[VVD0D95]

Both sound good for me... Maybe a great scandal behind the wedding of Ferdinand of Calabria and Germaine plus a surviving daughter to marry a son of Ferdinand (of Austria) and Isabella (of Portugal)?

Oooh that could be quite good, and was their wedding otl a great scandal?

How might one get Ferdinand of Austria onto the throne of Spain instead of his big brother? Does it require Ferdinand of Aragon living longer or?

 

[isabella]

Oooh that could be quite good, and was their wedding otl a great scandal?

How might one get Ferdinand of Austria onto the throne of Spain instead of his big brother? Does it require Ferdinand of Aragon living longer or?

No, no scandal. Plus Germaine was already quite old at that time (he was her third husband) but I was trying to get a sort of analogue of “Infanta” Isabella and Germaine relationship with Karl V...

Have Ferdinand living a couple of years longer (so Ferdinand jr is at least 15/16 years old and ready to marry Isabella of Portugal) and at the same time Maximilian (remarried to Anne Jagiellon) able to get Karl elected as King of the Romans... That would be likely enough to consent to Ferdinand sr - with the collaboration of Catalina sr and the support of Manuel (who will get his daughter Isabella as Queen of Spain, while Karl is already married) and Catalina jr (of Austria) as daughter-in-law plus Catalina sr for himself after Maria’s death) - to persuade the Cortes of Castile (and also that of Aragon, but the first are the big trouble) to the switch between his grandsons

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

His OTL fate more or less... sooner or later he will end as governor in some Spanish city and married to Germaine, while Catalina will marry Manuel of Portugal after Maria’s death (third wedding for both of them)

I once saw an alt-history where Ferdinand succeeds as king of Spain (can't remember what the POD is), and lacking a replacement sister for the widowered Manuel, offers the equally widowed Germaine.

 

[VVD0D95]

No, no scandal. Plus Germaine was already quite old at that time (he was her third husband) but I was trying to get a sort of analogue of “Infanta” Isabella and Germaine relationship with Karl V...

Have Ferdinand living a couple of years longer (so Ferdinand jr is at least 15/16 years old and ready to marry Isabella of Portugal) and at the same time Maximilian (remarried to Anne Jagiellon) able to get Karl elected as King of the Romans... That would be likely enough to consent to Ferdinand sr - with the collaboration of Catalina sr and the support of Manuel (who will get his daughter Isabella as Queen of Spain, while Karl is already married) and Catalina jr (of Austria) as daughter-in-law plus Catalina sr for himself after Maria’s death) - to persuade the Cortes of Castile (and also that of Aragon, but the first are the big trouble) to the switch between his grandsons

Ahhh I see.

And oh that would be quite good, who would Karl marry here? Mary Tudor or?

 

[isabella]

I once saw an alt-history where Ferdinand succeeds as king of Spain (can't remember what the POD is), and lacking a replacement sister for the widowered Manuel, offers the equally widowed Germaine.

I remember a TL where Manuel remarried to Germaine (but I do not remeber who offered her to him, if Charles, Juana or Ferdinand) but here Ferdinand II will offer Catalina to Manuel and they will marry before his death ...

Ahhh I see.

And oh that would be quite good, who would Karl marry here? Mary Tudor or?

Yes, Mary Tudor as here their engagement will never be broken (being also one of the things who James is not allowed to touch)

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I remember a TL where Manuel remarried to Germaine (but I do not remeber who offered her to him, if Charles, Juana or Ferdinand) but here Ferdinand II will offer Catalina to Manuel and they will marry before his death ...


Yes, Mary Tudor as here their engagement will never be broken (being also one of the things who James is not allowed to touch)

Fair enough. Would she name her son Carlos though? Mean, I know all traditional Iberian names (João/Juan, Fernando, Duarte, Luiz and Affonso/Alfonso, Henrique are taken, but Carlos seems a bit unlikely if Karl V DOESN'T become king of Spain, no?)

 

[VVD0D95]

I remember a TL where Manuel remarried to Germaine (but I do not remeber who offered her to him, if Charles, Juana or Ferdinand) but here Ferdinand II will offer Catalina to Manuel and they will marry before his death ...


Yes, Mary Tudor as here their engagement will never be broken (being also one of the things who James is not allowed to touch)

Alrighty, that's going to be an interesting marriage aha.

Fair enough. Would she name her son Carlos though? Mean, I know all traditional Iberian names (João/Juan, Fernando, Duarte, Luiz and Affonso/Alfonso, Henrique are taken, but Carlos seems a bit unlikely if Karl V DOESN'T become king of Spain, no?)

Hmm this is true, maybe they name their son after the father? Manuel I?

 

[isabella]

Fair enough. Would she name her son Carlos though? Mean, I know all traditional Iberian names (João/Juan, Fernando, Duarte, Luiz and Affonso/Alfonso, Henrique are taken, but Carlos seems a bit unlikely if Karl V DOESN'T become king of Spain, no?)

No way. He need another name, an iberian one, maybe Antonio, Manuel, Sebastian or Diego?

EDIT: Kellan the TL about which I was talking is As the Sun Rise, A Daughter Fall (and the match between Manuel and Germaine was arranged by Juana)...

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

No way. He need another name, an iberian one, maybe Antonio, Manuel, Sebastian or Diego?

Diego sounds fun. Antonio might be regarded as unlucky given that Manuel already had a son with that name who died.

 

[VVD0D95]

No way. He need another name, an iberian one, maybe Antonio, Manuel, Sebastian or Diego?

EDIT: Kellan the TL about which I was talking is As the Sun Rise, A Daughter Fall (and the match between Manuel and Germaine was arranged by Juana)...

Diego sounds fun. Antonio might be regarded as unlucky given that Manuel already had a son with that name who died.

Diego? I like the sound of that.

 

[VVD0D95]

Updated tree

Here's what I'm thinking in terms of the marriage for Manuel I and Catherine of Aragon

Manuel I of Portugal (b.1469: d. 1521) m Catherine of Aragon (b.1486) in 1518

Issue:

Infante Diego /Manuel (b.1519)

Infanta Maria (b.1520)

 

[isabella]

Diego sounds fun. Antonio might be regarded as unlucky given that Manuel already had a son with that name who died.

Right, same reason for which I had excluded Miguel and as Manuel had never named any of OTL his sons after himself I would esclude also that name...
Then we have Diego (or better Diogo, after one of Manuel’s brothers), Dinis, Simão (after the remaining brothers of Manuel) Sebastian or also Rodrigo (after the Cid Campeador, if Catalina is the one to name him)

 

[VVD0D95]

Right, same reason for which I had excluded Miguel and as Manuel had never named any of OTL his sons after himself I would esclude also that name...
Then we have Diego (or better Diogo, after one of Manuel’s brothers), Dinis (another brother of Manuel), Simão (also after a brother of Manuel) Sebastian or also Rodrigo (after the Cid Campeador, if Catalina is the one to name him)

I'm thinking Diego would be a cool name