Quebec Captured in 1628

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
...the attached map illustrates the way that early 17th century Anglo-Scottish access to the interior via St. Lawrence might alter the order of settlement of North American regions, with the side effect of Amerindians remaining a larger and more potent share of the population for a longer period in places settled later. (so ultimately still not doing better than OTL).

na_watersheds_en-modify.jpg
 

Driftless

Donor
Just from the reader's point of view, swapping out the French names will make following any story challenging - there is the authorial choice of having the "alternate" Gaelic/English names come close to the RL anglicized French, so perhaps the community that grows up in place of RL Detroit is Dunedin, and so forth...

Otherwise there will be a lot of confused readers, especially when it comes to New Orleans, St. Louis, Louisville, Louisiana, etc...

As said, this is far enough back one can do almost anything.

Best,

That is one of the reasons why I was thinking about the idea of importing a load of Huguenots, whilst it wouldn't be completely identical due to things like monarch's names and whatnot in other places it would be an easy excuse to use similar French names to our timeline's ones. Sometimes brand new names adds to the sense of things being completely different from our timeline, other times it's just a complete pain in the arse as a reader.

Absolutely. I wasn't thinking in terms of how the AH story gets told. I was thinking more of how residents view their own place - geographically and socially. For many folks, there's an association that goes with place names, and current residents often put their own stamp of possession and even permanence by naming a location.

As far as telling an AH story, that same change of name could make things chaotic, as you note ;)
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Yeah, you run into the

Since seven months might have been a touch too long a period for news to not reach Europe of Quebec's fall one solution I thought of was to have the Kirkes become overconfident after easily conquering the settlement plus capturing the supply fleet shortly a week or two later and decide to take a crack at capturing Port-Royal in Acadia as well. IIRC it was in a better situation than Quebec but I couldn't say for certain, even if they likely don't succeed it probably takes up enough time along with the voyage back to England. Successfully capturing it would probably be straying into wank-ish territory.



That is one of the reasons why I was thinking about the idea of importing a load of Huguenots, whilst it wouldn't be completely identical due to things like monarch's names and whatnot in other places it would be an easy excuse to use similar French names to our timeline's ones. Sometimes brand new names adds to the sense of things being completely different from our timeline, other times it's just a complete pain in the arse as a reader.


Yeah, otherwise you run into the "yes, these are the lands the white man will some day call Ohio, but we call Gitchgumee" or the equivalent...

The thing about BROS, most everywhere important in the story is already named...

Best,
 

TFSmith121

Banned
True...

Absolutely. I wasn't thinking in terms of how the AH story gets told. I was thinking more of how residents view their own place - geographically and socially. For many folks, there's an association that goes with place names, and current residents often put their own stamp of possession and even permanence by naming a location.

As far as telling an AH story, that same change of name could make things chaotic, as you note ;)

True ... Otherwise it's the "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" issue...

Best,
 
...the attached map illustrates the way that early 17th century Anglo-Scottish access to the interior via St. Lawrence might alter the order of settlement of North American regions, with the side effect of Amerindians remaining a larger and more potent share of the population for a longer period in places settled later. (so ultimately still not doing better than OTL).

[SNIP]
Thanks for posting the map, it's interesting. It might not go quite as our timeline since west of the Mississippi was still Spanish territory, at least until a convenient war in the future, but roughly similar. I figure it'd go something like Atlantic coast strip, bring in colonists to help secure the newly conquered territory around the Great Lakes, sooner or later someone discovers the Chicago Portage linking Lake Michigan to the Mississippi via the Illinois River and Des Plaines River, and then once people realise what a great transport highway the Mississippi is eventually start expanding east from starting points along it to meet the expansion coming west from the coast once the Indian Reservation is opened up.
 
If it helps, the colony at the time in English was still being called 'Canada' since I believe a Lord Stirling was given overlordship of 'Nova Scotia and Canada'.

Since Quebec itself is a Frenchified Amerindian name you may well just see it becoming Cabeck (as one journal noted in the 1690s) or somesuch.

Yep, links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Stirling (for Viscount Canada)

https://books.google.com/books?id=I...h1YQQyu#v=onepage&q="cabeck" "quebec"&f=false (Quebec as Anglicized Cabeck)

You may want to name Detroit after the English parallel to French Navy minister, Pontchartrain.

Montreal can keep its name, that hill is way too notable. Same for Three Rivers. Etc.
 
Huh. I was going to post saying that I'd finally received a copy of Andrew Nicholls' A Fleeting Empire after a month and a half's wait and thanks for the recommendation, that I'd be returning to this idea at some point in the future only to notice that raharris1973 has apparently gone fishing for a twenty month holiday.
 
You may want to name Detroit after the English parallel to French Navy minister, Pontchartrain.

Montreal can keep its name, that hill is way too notable. Same for Three Rivers. Etc.

So then I guess Detroit could be named pembroke or bridgewater?
 
One thing this do is make Canada a Scottish colony rather than an English one.

Not important at first blush, but imagine the Scotish treasury being full with new world profits from the fur trade, rather than being broke in 1707 and needing a bailout.

Bring in Scotish immigrants who otherwise would have gone south choosing the North and using the great lakes road to the interior in much greater numbers than the French did in the OTL.

Basically, you could have the Scotish North America as the great enemy of England or the senior partner in North America. They'd basically be devoting more proportionally to NA like they did in the OTL but it would not benefit London.
 
If we're going by more person for person naming analogies- the Carolana purchase, and at the mouth of the Mississippi the city of New Wales? ( since Philippe d'orleans was heir to the throne)
 
If you look into the 1632 series, there is a thread on North America that somewhat follows the original premise, except here the Danes follow up on the Kirke's strategy and also start the Hudson's Bay Co. settlements. The first book was The Danish Scheme and the upcoming book is The French riposte.
 
Since Detroit's original full name was Ville d'Etroit (Strait-City) after its stragetic position, Bridgewater would be an amazingly apropos name. :D

Actually Detroit's original full name was Fort Pontchartrain du Détroit, being named for the naval minister of Louis XIV and its location on a "strait" (actually, a river).
 
Top