Q: How to keep Brittany, Burgundy and Lorraine independent until nowadays?

I have a (not very) simple question: how could have history developed in a way that Brittany, Burgundy and Lorraine remained, until the present times of 2014, as separate and independent nations from France?

Although all we know that these duchies suffered a remarkable French influence that weakened their sense of self-administration, they had potential to survive under some specific circumstances.

I was thinking, also: the Franche-Comté (Burgundy) and Lorraine were very close geographically, and could have potentially merged into a single country. Would it be possible in a scenario of Independence from France?

Also, don't hesitate in using all the PODs you have in mind to make it all happen.

I'd be pleased to be answered by y'all :)
 
There are a few ways I can see this happening, though it's far easier to just have one or two happen than all three, especially the later you go in history.

Firstly a POD around the Hundred Year's War or something where England wins, at least to some extent, and so France is weakened severely for a long time and those areas remain independent and France never grows strong enough to annex them.

The second POD would be Charles the Bold of Burgundy successfully making his domain into a Kingdom that can repel attacks from France and, possibly, from the Emperor. I don't know about Brittany in this TL but perhaps an Anglo-Burgundian anti-French alliance could mean that Brittany is released and becomes a vassal of England or something like that. In such a scenario one assumes Lorraine would naturally not come under France's control, though how you could keep it totally independent would be a struggle.

Another POD could be the French Religious Wars where a Spanish client state is created in Brittany as almost happened IOTL, and from there simply have the HRE attack in the east when France is severely and take back Burgundy and then it eventually becomes independent, or perhaps the Hapsburg House is further split into Austrian Hapsburgs and Burgundian Hapsburgs.

Another possibility if the Fronde, have Louis Conde win a few more important battles, but overall still have him lose in the grand scheme of things, thus he retreats to Burgundy where he defends the lands there which, I believe he had purview over IOTL. He successfully defends the lands there into a stalemate when France recognises him as an independent (or perhaps semi-independent) Duchy of Burgundy. Again Brittany is difficult in this scenario, perhaps when the Fronde starts going worse the French become increasingly desperate and impose a salt tax on Brittany, thus causing a substantial rebellion there and, exhausted, France gives in and allows them increasing independence as well which eventually leads to total independence.

The later ones aren't wholly plausible, but really I think once you go past 1500 it becomes increasingly difficult to divide France up, and so while Lorraine and Burgundy will have an easier time of staying independent from France, Brittany will be the problem.
 
The suggested marriage alliance between Anne of Brittany and an English prince (the future Edward V, if I remember correctly?) goes ahead?
 
I know it is a different case, a different territory, a different people and a different story, but I have never understood how territorially small countries like Portugal, Denmark and Luxembourg managed to survive until present days, even surrounded by giants like Spain (in Portugal's case), Sweden (in Denmark's case), HRE/German Empire and France itself.

Why would it be so difficult to these other nations (Britanny and Burgundy-Lorraine) to become independent? I mean, specific reasons for their everlasting dependence on the French and their subsequent subjection.

I have already imagined the following scenarios, both in cases of handy female inheritance:

1 - Brittany
When Claude of Brittany died, she left her claim to the Duchy of Brittany to her eldest son, Francis of Valois-Angouleme, who eventually would've become king of France if he had survived. He however became Francis III of Brittany anyway. What if he had lived long enough to marry, left a daughter as heir (let's name her Claude II of Brittany) and stipulated in his will that Brittany should never be annexed to the rest of France and had to follow succession rules distinct from the Salic Law? If the girl is born around 1537 she would be about the same age as King Edward VI of England. If they marry, Brittany becomes British and the the girl's French Valois cousins will go mad.

2 - Burgundy-Lorraine
Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, was also King of Spain and Duke of Burgundy. His son Philip II of Spain eventually inherited the Iberian kingdoms and the Netherlands, but it is very plausible that if he have had another son, probably Burgundy would be left to him as an appanage. Let's put that such a son is born around 1528, name him John. Antoine, Duke of Lorraine, had a daughter named Anna (born 1522), who by marriage was IOTL Princess of Orange. What if Antoine has no surviving sons, names his daugther as heir and marries her off to such hypothetical John of Habsburg? Remember that Lorraine already had two female rulers, Isabella and Yolande, so I believe that this wouldn't be a problem.

Although we know political marriages played a big part of that-time politics, unhappily wedding rings are useless when facing swords and firearms. How to solve those nations deep incapacities in terms of firepower and defense?
 
I think the simplest solution would be to have no Charlemagne. Then you have the REAL Burgundy unmolested by Frankish invaders ;)

Brittany I think is much easier, as it was de jure independent for much longer, but something that might help them out would be if they either a) had better luck with Viking raids/invasions or b) were hit even worse by the Vikings so that a Norse dynasty comes to rule Brittany, and has the disposal of viking warriors as well as the Breton armies.
 
I know it is a different case, a different territory, a different people and a different story, but I have never understood how territorially small countries like Portugal, Denmark and Luxembourg managed to survive until present days, even surrounded by giants like Spain (in Portugal's case), Sweden (in Denmark's case), HRE/German Empire and France itself.
Sweden may have more land, but Denmark has better agricultural productivity (due to soils, as well as climate) and consequently had more people...
 
I found a map of what I basically though as being the "Kingdom of Burgundy-Netherlands", it pretty much represents what I was planning for this thread:

Kingdom_of_Burgundy_in_1655_by_DNjenkins.png


Plausible? Possible? If so, how?
 
With an war for english independence you need a pod where england wins the HYW and the plantagenets focuses on france.
 
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