Q-Bam Historical Map Thread

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530 BC: Death of Cyrus the Great

I normally don't include tribes, but given the main event of this map, I figured I should at least include that Massagetae, and just sort of went from there and included some other cultures, labelled for your convenience (and yet i still dint label the actual states)

I can make a version without tribes if this looks awful, and a full labelled version might come about eventually
 
unknown.png


530 BC: Death of Cyrus the Great

I normally don't include tribes, but given the main event of this map, I figured I should at least include that Massagetae, and just sort of went from there and included some other cultures, labelled for your convenience (and yet i still dint label the actual states)

I can make a version without tribes if this looks awful, and a full labelled version might come about eventually
I mean I don't have any problems with tribes, it's only that the tribes shown seem pretty random? Idk
 
I mean I don't have any problems with tribes, it's only that the tribes shown seem pretty random? Idk
Those are just the only ones I felt confident about putting in. I know it’s weird to have 11 Siberian tribes but then none in Europe outside of Italy, but that’s just the restrictions of finding sources for specific times and places being confusing, if I could have added more I totally would have.
 
Thanks! Goodluck with your project, especially in the medieval era with Northern Italy being turned into a feudal shithole! Now idk if I'd pick 301 as San Marinos founding as a state but I'm not going to nitpick at you over a literal dot since it's looking great already!
It was founded in 301, I'm not sure why any other date would be picked?
This is not a de jure map, going off of when it got Papal recognition is dumb.
It had established borders, and expanded its size since the 1200s.
It was thoroughly independent since 301, but thank you :D
 
It was founded in 301, I'm not sure why any other date would be picked?
This is not a de jure map, going off of when it got Papal recognition is dumb.
It had established borders, and expanded its size since the 1200s.
It was thoroughly independent since 301, but thank you :D
Well I doubt that it would be independent or a state in 301, during a period of Roman resurgence, under an anti-Christian Emperor. San Marino was barely more than a small monastery community, from which a small village developed, but 301 as the establishment of a state, especially a Republic, doesn't make much sense for the era it was in. Even after Rome fell, it wasn't independent, and reportedly was a fief of the Duchy of Spoleto. I do think that it existed well before papal recognition, around the time when other cities in Northern Italy effectively asserted themselves as independent communes, which themselves were effective Republics. I don't have a definite date in mind, but if I'd pick a range, it would be between the conquest of Northern Italy by Pepin and 1000 AD, and would likely have been one of the first communes in Northern Italy since it's relatively remote.
 
Well I doubt that it would be independent or a state in 301, during a period of Roman resurgence, under an anti-Christian Emperor. San Marino was barely more than a small monastery community, from which a small village developed, but 301 as the establishment of a state, especially a Republic, doesn't make much sense for the era it was in. Even after Rome fell, it wasn't independent, and reportedly was a fief of the Duchy of Spoleto. I do think that it existed well before papal recognition, around the time when other cities in Northern Italy effectively asserted themselves as independent communes, which themselves were effective Republics. I don't have a definite date in mind, but if I'd pick a range, it would be between the conquest of Northern Italy by Pepin and 1000 AD, and would likely have been one of the first communes in Northern Italy since it's relatively remote.

I think the fact it was such a small community makes the 301 date more likely, since it would be easier for them to slip under the Roman’s radar if they’re tiny enough to be barely noticeable, as is the fact that a persecution was going on at the time, since it’s easy to see Roman Christians wanting to be separate from the empire at this time. As for their relation to Spoleto, even if they submitted to Lombard overlordship that doesn’t necessarily mean they wouldn’t exist as a state, just been more of a vassal than anything else. The Sanmarinese have always fiercely defended their independence, so I don’t think they’d let Spoleto fully annex them.

I’ve always gone with the 301 date since there simply isn’t any concrete evidence against it, and I have no real reason to doubt it. This isn’t to say “traditional” foundation dates can’t be questioned (looking at you, Japan), just that this one in particular seems reasonable.
 
I think the fact it was such a small community makes the 301 date more likely, since it would be easier for them to slip under the Roman’s radar if they’re tiny enough to be barely noticeable, as is the fact that a persecution was going on at the time, since it’s easy to see Roman Christians wanting to be separate from the empire at this time. As for their relation to Spoleto, even if they submitted to Lombard overlordship that doesn’t necessarily mean they wouldn’t exist as a state, just been more of a vassal than anything else. The Sanmarinese have always fiercely defended their independence, so I don’t think they’d let Spoleto fully annex them.

I’ve always gone with the 301 date since there simply isn’t any concrete evidence against it, and I have no real reason to doubt it. This isn’t to say “traditional” foundation dates can’t be questioned (looking at you, Japan), just that this one in particular seems reasonable.
That seems reasonable. I doubt the 301 date because, Rome yknow, and that there aren't really any recorded leaders until the 1200s, but there have been weirder and less reasonable things that have happened in history, and similar happenings such as in Venice and Genoa, so I take it with a grain of salt. I just don't believe that this is one of those cases and more of a founding of a settlement, like how the early puritans who came and founded Plymouth or any form of loose colonization, where they came and established settlements and had some semblence of self governance but were themselves still loyal to the "motherland" or hegemon that ruled over them.
I do understand why it is used though
 
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Well I doubt that it would be independent or a state in 301, during a period of Roman resurgence, under an anti-Christian Emperor. San Marino was barely more than a small monastery community, from which a small village developed, but 301 as the establishment of a state, especially a Republic, doesn't make much sense for the era it was in. Even after Rome fell, it wasn't independent, and reportedly was a fief of the Duchy of Spoleto. I do think that it existed well before papal recognition, around the time when other cities in Northern Italy effectively asserted themselves as independent communes, which themselves were effective Republics. I don't have a definite date in mind, but if I'd pick a range, it would be between the conquest of Northern Italy by Pepin and 1000 AD, and would likely have been one of the first communes in Northern Italy since it's relatively remote.
It was so small that it passed under the radar. 301-1200s San Marino size was about 1/10 of the present size.
 
After taking a month off for personal reasons, I finished the first part of my 2/12/1912 map. Europe shouldn't be too different from any pre-Second Balkan War map but knowing me I probably found a way to fuck it up.

Also on did some digging and found out that a certain portion of the Norwegian-Swedish border was demilitarized from 1905-1993. Here

Is there any reason why this is never shown?
 

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After taking a month off for personal reasons, I finished the first part of my 2/12/1912 map. Europe shouldn't be too different from any pre-Second Balkan War map but knowing me I probably found a way to fuck it up.

Also on did some digging and found out that a certain portion of the Norwegian-Swedish border was demilitarized from 1905-1993. Here

Is there any reason why this is never shown?
I didn't even know that was a thing, but it's a good detail to add! Good luck on your map!
 
After taking a month off for personal reasons, I finished the first part of my 2/12/1912 map. Europe shouldn't be too different from any pre-Second Balkan War map but knowing me I probably found a way to fuck it up.

Also on did some digging and found out that a certain portion of the Norwegian-Swedish border was demilitarized from 1905-1993. Here

Is there any reason why this is never shown?
looking great so far, and I've never heard of that Sweden/Norway thing before.

A couple notes, though, the reservoirs in Iberia and Ukraine shouldn't be there yet, neither should the little dot off the Essex coast (which is Sealand, IIRC)
 
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