Punic Empire

Dorozhand

Banned
After the victory of Hannibal the Great at the siege and battle of Rome, he left Italy under the command of Hasdrubal and returned to Carthage in triumph, venerated like a god by the people. His enormous popularity prompted the Oligarchy to attempt to assassinate him. The attempt failed, and Hannibal used this as an excuse to disband the institution and declare himself absolute ruler of the Punic Empire.

The city of Rome had been reduced to rubble after the end of the war. Capua replaced it as the principle Italian city, the Romans were killed, enslaved and their remnants thoroughly Punicized. The greek cities in the south regained stature and cities that had supported Hannibal were treated well. Carthage was thence in control of the entire Italian peninsula to the Alps (The Veneti had swore total allegiance to him after the victory). Hannibal then conquered the southern Gallic tribes to connect the territory to Spain. Carthaginian naval forces conquered Dalmatia.

Carthage then set her sights eastwards, and led by Hannibal himself once more, conquered from Cyrene to Ptolemaic Egypt and into Judea in a brilliant series of campaigns. Hannibal then expands and consolidates his holdings in North Africa, from Mauritania to Numidia and Tripolitania.

Hannibal reforms the army to include more Punic citizens, and resurrects the sacred band as a heavy infantry force.

After the death of Hannibal, his only son, Hamilcar II (Hannibal retroactively placed his father as the first emperor), succeeds him. Hamilcar was thoroughly groomed by Hannibal in the arts of war and statesmanship, and accompanied his father on campaign in Egypt. He proves to be an excellent ruler as well, but more inclined to statesmanship than war. Under his rule agriculture in north Africa is encouraged and subsidized, and the Punic population explodes. He encourages colonization of conquered areas
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The navy is greatly expanded during this time, and advancements in naval technology are made. Punic navigators reach the Congo River by 160 BC and set up colonies all along the coast from Gambia to Nigeria. Eventually, the entire Niger basin is conquered and colonized.

Hamilcar II also leads the army on a campaign to conquer Macedon. His army of Punic heavy infantry and Numidian-Punic cavalry totally outmatches Macedon’s antiquated phalanxes and all of Greece is either conquered or vassalized by 160 BC.

Carthage’s rapid expansion continues in the next decades into Asia with the conquest of Judea and Anatolia, and Punic forces help to dislodge the Parthians from Persia as a rebel army under the leadership of Gotarzes founds a new native dynasty. However, civil war among Gotarzes’ grandsons soon causes the empire to collapse, and three successor states emerge. Punic armies snatch up Mesopotamia and much of western Persia during this chaos, and vassalize the remnant Dahae Empire in the north.

By 1 AD Punic navigators round the Cape of Good Hope and reach India, establishing colonies all along the coast and in Madagascar. Carthage grows fabulously wealthy dominating the trade with India and China, and imperial coffers pay for massive armies, further conquest, and great city developments.

A Punic delegation visits the Chinese court in 10 AD and meets Wang Mang. After a return trip later on, the delegation chooses to remain in Chang’an and they become prominent court advisors. Their financial expertise, the opening of trade between the Punic and Chinese Empires, and their effect on Wang’s perception of the importance of merchants helps the Xin to balance a well-oiled economy. This allows Wang Mang to better deal with the change in the Yellow River’s course, lending aid the farmers affected. Contact with Carthage also increases his understanding of foreign relations. Support for his reign grows and the Xin dynasty consolidates itself.

In India, Carthage sets up trading colonies all along the coast, and uses its military might to sway wars to and fro. Punic forces help the Satavahanas Empire to drive out the Saka and conquer most of north and west India. The Ay Kingdom conquers the far south with Punic help.

In 60 AD, emperor Hannibal III orders a massive invasion of the Indus River. The Pahlava kingdom is driven upstream by a series of defeats. It isn’t subdued completely, but the Poeni hold the wealthiest parts of the river and now have a virtual monopoly on the Indian Ocean trade.

In 80 AD, a second capital, called “Great City” in Punic, is built near Tyre in Phoenicia, the Punic ancestral homeland. This capital is used to administer the eastern half of the empire, while Carthage administered the western half. The empire was not split in two as OTL Rome, but was one empire with two capitals.

The empire’s steady expansion took it into Arabia, conquering the peninsula’s cities and subjecting the Bedouins, who were employed to ferry trade goods across the peninsula in a formalized version of the ad hoc routes of older times.

The empire established friendly relations with the Iazyges and Dacians, aiding them in local wars and guaranteeing the Danube and Dalmatia protection from raids.

Carthage’s massive wealth allowed the construction of a Suez canal in 120 AD, a huge system of highways connecting every corner of the empire, and, in 130 AD, a gigantic system of walls and defensive fortifications along contested frontiers.

The mercantile nature, dynamic adaptability, massive trade wealth, steady and smooth colonization movements, and organic mode of expansion allowed Carthage greater conquest and longevity than the Romans OTL.

Cyan: the three successor states of the Gotarzid Persian Empire that drove out the Parthians with the help of the Poeni but later collapsed into civil war.

Gold: Dahae Empire. A state formed by the remnants of the Parthians, based in the Aral Sea basin, which has conquered to the Caspian coast and regained some power, but is still a vassal of the Poeni.

Purple: Satavahanas Empire. With help of Poeni forces, and under osmotic influence of Poeni culture, this state has managed to drive out the Saka and conquer most of north and central India.

Green: Ay Kingdom. Poeni Naval forces and marines aided this state in its conquest southernmost India. Poeni trading colonies line the coast.

Grey: Kalinga. Enemies of Carthage, Ay, and Satavahanas, this state’s only source of trade income is received from East Asia. As a result, its culture is becoming increasingly easternized, and the dynasty largely adopts the character of the Khmer and Champa.

Magenta: Pahlava Kingdom. Greatly reduced after a massive Poeni invasion of the Indus river, this state is a bitter enemy of Carthage and a massive system of fortifications is needed to keep them at bay.

Navy: Xin Dynasty of China. After Punic influence, Wang Mang improved his skills as a statesman and economic mind. His dynasty consolidated rule in China, and expanded Chinese control into Tibet. Xin has friendly and enormously profitable trade relations with Carthage.

Red: Silurian Kingdom. Carthage never cared much for the north of Europe, but sent forces to Britannia to help this kingdom gain hegemony over the British Isles to guarantee Poeni access to Cornish tin.

Lavender: Dacia. a friendly trading partner and ally of Carthage, along with the Iagyges (Aqua).

Punic Empire at its height under emperor Hannibal VII in 200 AD:

Carthaginian Empire.png

Carthaginian Empire.png
 
How could Carthage be an empire if it was a republic like Rome? Unless we are going under the assumption Hannibal Pulls an Augustus Caesar and becomes emperor.
 
How could Carthage be an empire if it was a republic like Rome? Unless we are going under the assumption Hannibal Pulls an Augustus Caesar and becomes emperor.

Reread the part I put in bold below.

After the victory of Hannibal the Great at the siege and battle of Rome, he left Italy under the command of Hasdrubal and returned to Carthage in triumph, venerated like a god by the people. His enormous popularity prompted the Oligarchy to attempt to assassinate him. The attempt failed, and Hannibal used this as an excuse to disband the institution and declare himself absolute ruler of the Punic Empire.
 
I'm kind of in the school of thought that doesn't believe Empires need Emperors in order to be Empires, but that's neither here nor there.

I don't think it's impossible that Carthage could have become the dominant power in the Mediterranean. Given their tenacity and ingenuity, I can see them holding a large European land Empire.

What I'm looking at now is utterly bewildering.

With 200 AD era technology, let alone beforehand, there is absolutely no way on earth Carthage is able to keep control of any of those West/South/East African colonies, or the Indian ocean islands including Madagascar, or colonies in India. The communication lag between these locations and either of the capitals is absolutely immense. Central authority couldn't possibly hope to respond to changes in circumstance there, and any governors there would be so outside the authority of the Empire that they would easily be able to break away. Not only that, nearly all of these places would become completely and utterly isolated if they lost their ships.

The Roman Empire was unable to subdue the Arabian peninsula, why was it so easy for the Carthaginians? Why has an Empire of this size, with this much militarism generating ambition, not had any major crises causing it to splinter or lapse into civil war? Between about 100 BC and 200 AD, you can argue for Rome experiencing at least five civil wars and several succession crises; what's so special about the Carthaginian system that this has become impossible?

In addition to this, I'd also say that it would be almost impossible for Carthage to retain Persia; as it is, the majority of the Iranian plateau is in the hands of states hostile to Carthage. All it would take is a reunification of these Persian successor states or a large nomadic force (rather easy to imagine since there's no state to oppose them entering the Iranian plateau via Bactria). That occupation of Persia is a liability, not a weakness- any Iranian state of growing strength will want to retake it, and if that area is compromised it's likely they will begin to make inroads into Mesopotamia.

On that subject, the division of territory under those Persian successor states is completely arbitrary. One state is getting a bit of Parthia and a bit of Drangiana, one seems to consist entirely of the Gedrosian desert, and the other has borders that seem to include Arachosia, bits of Margiana and some of southern Bactria without controlling any natural frontiers besides the Indus river.

Another thing; what on earth happened to the Seleucid Empire??? Given your date of Hannibal's victory over Rome, this means that Rome was not around when the Seleucids were in a revival under Antiochus III. It's debated exactly how effective the revival was, but he had a serious chance of taking Egypt from the Ptolemies until the Romans intervened. Without the Romans, I don't see why the Seleucids would magically have vanished and presented absolutely no threat to the Carthaginians whatsoever. We are potentially talking about a state stretching from Anatolia to Persia and Parthia and including Egypt, and this was not even a road bump to the great and mighty Carthaginian Empire?

Also, by 200 AD somehow we've had no retatilation from the many Gauls still at large at the Empire's Gaulish frontier? Even in the late 2nd century BC there are movements of some Germanic groups west and south, somehow by 200 AD there have been no Germanic invasions of any of this Empire's Western territories? Given that this is an Empire attempting to get manpower to police the entirety of the Mediterranean, Egypt, most of North Africa, all of Arabia, the Near East, parts of India, West Africa *and* Indian Ocean islands, a severe poke in any of its many frontiers should see it collapse like wet tissue paper.

In addition, the Carthaginians are having to attempt to integrate a veritable menagerie of completely different cultures and peoples. Including the Greeks, who absolutely hated Carthage. And the Italians, most of whom also hated Carthage. And Gauls, not known for their tendency to stay quiet. And Iberians, rather famous for throwing off total conquest until the Romans literally threw generals at them until they shut up. And the Egyptians, who have nasty past history with Carthage. And about a dozen different cultures in the Near East who all have extreme imperial pedigree and will not appreciate being made to lie down.

In short, I've probably spent far too much time on this but I couldn't just leave this one alone.
 
Space Filling Empire.

No Empire from that era will EVER get that big, it's simply beyond the control of any centralized leadership. Look at the massive problems Rome and Persia had and you will get an idea of why this is impossible.

Carthojizzian Empire much?

Ten points to Enigma :p
 
I got my hopes up when I first started reading and then scrolled down to the map.

Carthage replacing Rome as the Mediterrian empire is neat. A Tunisian empire expanding across Arabia and Africa in 200AD is just not possible.
 
I got my hopes up when I first started reading and then scrolled down to the map.

Carthage replacing Rome as the Mediterrian empire is neat. A Tunisian empire expanding across Arabia and Africa in 200AD is just not possible.

Any empire in that period of that size.

And having Hannibal's taking of Rome - which would take a hell of a POD given the circumstances - as the point the description starts doesn't help either.

A Carthangian Empire over the Western Med is plausible, if tough (the Second Punic War already sees the balance tilted towards Rome). The whole of the Med might be possible in the right circumstances. Beyond that gets into "It's like the Roman Empire, only African." - and this gets into "It's a Romewank of the sort by people who forgot the legions lost battles."
 
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