PT-41 and MacArthur lost at sea

What if PT-41 is lost with all hands during the storm on the night of March 12-13 1942?

- would the administration keep the news secret, and/or pretend MacArthur is alive and well in Australia for as long as possible?
- if the news is released, how does the loss of MacArthur impact US moral?
- who takes his place as ground commander in the pacific?
- what is the impact to the pacific campaigns (e.g., are the Philippines bypassed)?
- what is the impact to the Korean War?

Ric350
 
What if PT-41 is lost with all hands during the storm on the night of March 12-13 1942?

- would the administration keep the news secret, and/or pretend MacArthur is alive and well in Australia for as long as possible?
- if the news is released, how does the loss of MacArthur impact US moral?
- who takes his place as ground commander in the pacific?
- what is the impact to the pacific campaigns (e.g., are the Philippines bypassed)?
- what is the impact to the Korean War?

Ric350

It would be announced but as due to enemy action. That makes MacArthur a dead hero rather than a live problem, which is win/win for everyone but the boats crew and MacArthur.

Morale effect - this could be played up or down, depending on whether making a martyr out of Mac is seen as a positive. The whole thing would be up to the PR/Propaganda guys to decide.

Pacific Campaign - probably less emphasis on retaking the Philippines, but still some if only to tie up Japanese forces and threaten Japanese objectives like the NEI etc.

Impact on Korean War - Well the troops occupying Japan might not be at half strength, with worn out trucks, mortars etc and having been allowed to have servants polishing the boots of privates etc. Also a commander running the war from closer to the action than Tokyo might be a little more in touch with reality. So that would be a better situation really.
 

Driftless

Donor
What happens if the PT boat goes down, with no indication of what happened? Basically, Mac & company are MIA for several days/a week or two. If it's just another PT boat shot to pieces by the Japanese air or naval forces, they probably don't realize the impact - it's just a patrol boat, nothing special. For the US command, the boats there and then, .... not.

Locally, the command structure will adapt quickly, but what does Washington do in that murky scenario?
 
Well many AH members would clap for this occasion.

I can see the drive through the Central Pacific led by Nimitz being the priority. If no invasion of Leyte, where would Sho Go be fought? Taiwan?
 

GarethC

Donor
What happens if the PT boat goes down, with no indication of what happened? Basically, Mac & company are MIA for several days/a week or two. If it's just another PT boat shot to pieces by the Japanese air or naval forces, they probably don't realize the impact - it's just a patrol boat, nothing special. For the US command, the boats there and then, .... not.?
You could even say that They Were Expendable.

The book is worth a read, btw.
 
Well many AH members would clap for this occasion.

I can see the drive through the Central Pacific led by Nimitz being the priority. If no invasion of Leyte, where would Sho Go be fought? Taiwan?
Hey now, we'd regret the death of Bulkeley. Any base commander who dressed as a ninja to try and penetrate his Marine's security would be missed...
 

Driftless

Donor
What happens if the PT boat goes down, with no indication of what happened? Basically, Mac & company are MIA for several days/a week or two. If it's just another PT boat shot to pieces by the Japanese air or naval forces, they probably don't realize the impact - it's just a patrol boat, nothing special. For the US command, the boats there and then, .... not.

Locally, the command structure will adapt quickly, but what does Washington do in that murky scenario?

You could even say that They Were Expendable.

The book is worth a read, btw.

The escape plan was kind of "seat-of-the-pants" desperation and could have ended with the PT boats blown out of the water, with little evidence remaining. I have seen the movie a few times, but I haven't read the book yet.
 
Blown out of the water, run out of gas, break down or simply lost at sea. IIRC one of the PT's escorting Buckley disappeared one night and was never seen nor heard from again. It's been years since I read THEY WERE EXPENDABLE, need to re-watch the movie again as well...
 
All of the PT boats used in the escape were accounted for. PTs 41, 35, and 34 made it all the way. PT 32 had engine trouble and was abandoned by the crew. They were picked up by submarine USS Permit, and the sub destroyed PT 32 with its deck gun. Unfortunately Bulkeley didn't know this and he thought PT 32 and its crew were MIA.


With no MacArthur, and the Philippines bypassed, would the IJN navy forces (that moved against Leyte in OTL) have sorted out to take on the US fleet (Halsey) in a banzai death charge?

ric350
 
What if PT-41 is lost with all hands during the storm on the night of March 12-13 1942?

- would the administration keep the news secret, and/or pretend MacArthur is alive and well in Australia for as long as possible?
- if the news is released, how does the loss of MacArthur impact US moral?
- who takes his place as ground commander in the pacific?
- what is the impact to the pacific campaigns (e.g., are the Philippines bypassed)?
- what is the impact to the Korean War?

Ric350
 
Well for starters the organization of the PTO would be vastly different. Mac was a huge driving force behind the creation of the SWPA. Something similar will likely be created but the borders are going to be different and probably will be limited to Australia and it's environs without Mac's desire to return to the PI.

This in turn probably leads to a more efficient organization of American Submarines in the Pacific which may result in an earlier solution to the Mark XIV's litany of issues.

Aus/US relations are probably better without Macs personality.

The PNG campaign is likely much shorter in TTL with only enough landings to secure Port Moresby and cut off Rabaul. OTL'S landings on the North coast of the Island don't take place freeing up an impressive amount of shipping in late 1942-early 43. With neither the USN or USMC ready to launch a Central Pacific drive until late 43 at least, this shipping probably goes to Europe.

I don't think the Philippines would be bypassed completely in TTL though. Try simply have too many advantages that Formosa simply doesn't have. However I do think that there will be fewer landings there once the majority of Luzon is taken.

All told this probably speeds the Allied advance up by about 6 months- a year. I do wonder though if the Allies invade Japan in TTL without the A-bomb or if Nimitz wins out and the Americans settle for a blockade and landings in China.
 
Hmm, US blockades Japan, and instead, has massive troop landings in China & Korea. That would really butterfly the communist eastern expansion!

Ric350
 
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