Thomas1195
Banned
If the Dutch somehow develop a sense of manifest destiny during the 17th century similar to that of Venice in North Italy during the 15th-16th century, then they could pull it off during the 30 Years' War.
Seriously we've hessians as a meme, why we never pulled a super Hesse here is weird, as you say, rather partition, they got some lucky inherances and become a nations of mercenary.I want to be original!
Hesse avoids partitioning into different states (or manages to reunite). Then avoids the Hessian War and the devastation of the Thirty Years' War. Then one of its leaders with his base of mercenaries creates a permanent army overpowered by the size of his state. Finally his heirs manage to unify part of the Holy Empire/Germany.
Even before the American War of Independence, butterflies are likely to be beating. It's true that I found almost nothing on this site about an alternative Hesse.Seriously we've hessians as a meme, why we never pulled a super Hesse here is weird, as you say, rather partition, they got some lucky inherances and become a nations of mercenary.
Of course more sucessful hessians means the US war of independance might end in a loss for the 13th colonies
Yeah that is why is strange, Hesse is an old meme yet no one took the next step to make the meme pausableEven before the American War of Independence, butterflies are likely to be beating. It's true that I found almost nothing on this site about an alternative Hesse.
In my chronology I have started to talk about it but I don't know anyone who does.
What kind of memes are imagined on Hesse? Otherwise I'd like to read a chronology where Hesse unifies central Germany and becomes a respected military power.Yeah that is why is strange, Hesse is an old meme yet no one took the next step to make the meme pausable
What kind of memes are imagined on Hesse? Otherwise I'd like to read a chronology where Hesse unifies central Germany and becomes a respected military power.
Honestly, "Prussia" itself never mattered very much. Brandenburg was always the shining star, and I actually don't think Poland necessarily changes that much. Hell, Brandenburg may well focus on Germany earlier without the distraction of Prussia.I was just thinking out loud. Brandenburg and Saxony could end up in a permanent union and become Prussia in all but name, considering the Brandenburg part of Brandenburg-Prussia was the dominant one in their union.
Aside from the initial infusion of cash into the Hohenzollern coffers, Prussia mattered because, as a territory outside the HRE, the Duke of Brandenburg could have legally become a king there, once it got out from under the PLC.Honestly, "Prussia" itself never mattered very much. Brandenburg was always the shining star, and I actually don't think Poland necessarily changes that much. Hell, Brandenburg may well focus on Germany earlier without the distraction of Prussia.
Which didn't happen until 1701. King in Prussia is a convenient legal fiction that the Emperor could use to justify giving the Great Elector a crown, but if the Emperor wanted Brandenburg's aid, he would have found another way to do it anyways.Aside from the initial infusion of cash into the Hohenzollern coffers, Prussia mattered because, as a territory outside the HRE, the Duke of Brandenburg could have legally become a king there, once it got out from under the PLC.
The Thing is..if not prussia..maybe Brandenburg push early for hesse as they wanted?Which didn't happen until 1701. King in Prussia is a convenient legal fiction that the Emperor could use to justify giving the Great Elector a crown, but if the Emperor wanted Brandenburg's aid, he would have found another way to do it anyways.
When was Hesse on the table? I'm all for it, but I'm unaware of it.The Thing is..if not prussia..maybe Brandenburg push early for hesse as they wanted?
I think when one of the frederick married a hessian princess...not remember one.will need to look the source but the issue is might be on german.When was Hesse on the table? I'm all for it, but I'm unaware of it
Really? IIRC, the Hapsburgs were a driving force behind the 1st Partition and ended up with the economically best piece of a territory.At the time of first partition, Maria Theresia didn't even wanted to participate in it, and Joseph just wanted more land for Austria.
The PLC chance as a regional super-anything was pretty much lost by mid-XVII, which means that Prussia-related premise is a bogus one because it’s role at the Deluge was minor and by 1700 when the PLC was just a Swedish-Saxon-Prussian battleground Prussia only started its raise as the European factor.Poland Self Destruct alone with some Austria and Russia here, here Sweden could took prussian place, again butterflies would make poland die faster or slower, just become an austria vassal as the habsburg wanted it
That is why i mentioned Self Destruct Alone, if anything just now Sweden would took the free chances otl prussia took hereThe PLC chance as a regional super-anything was pretty much lost by mid-XVII, which means that Prussia-related premise is a bogus one because it’s role at the Deluge was minor and by 1700 when the PLC was just a Swedish-Saxon-Prussian battleground Prussia only started its raise as the European factor.
Good idea. In OTL Prussia got its first “chance” after the Deluge when it became formally independent from the PLC (1657). For Sweden this would not make sense because it never was Polish vassal. So if we eliminate Prussia (leaving only Brandenburg) we may have as an equivalent Sweden conquering territory of OTL Ducal Prussia (with an open question of its status prior to this conquest). Sweden has a considerably more territory on the Eastern Baltic coast but this does not seriously impact the PLC position because in the OTL it does not have that territory anyway. So the main factor is still self-destruction.That is why i mentioned Self Destruct Alone, if anything just now Sweden would took the free chances otl prussia took here
Really? IIRC, the Hapsburgs were a driving force behind the 1st Partition and ended up with the economically best piece of a territory.