Prussia less successfull in the 19. century

Let us asssume that for whatever reason, Prussia was a less successful power from around the Napoleonic war. It did not win any important areas and maybe even lost some areas. What other power would have the best chance to conquer those areas? Austria? France? Or maybe the Netherlands?
 
First thing to do is have Napoleon die fighting against a coalition that doesn't involve Prussia, if you want your POD in the 19th century. The less power you give Prussia, the less chance they have of becoming the big dog in the German states later.

Then, the question is, do you want Austria to reign supreme? Or have a balance, perhaps 3 ways with the other German states?
 
It would be interesting with an Austrian state conquering most non-Prussian German areas. How would this influence later German history? Assuming that Prussia would remain independent of Austria, would this state be less militant than OTL Germany?
 
If Austria had been allowed to keep Belgium, they would have had a good start for taking further territories in the west of Germany. Or maybe a Napoleonic France that had more limited goals would be able to avoid overstretching and not only to conquer, but even to keep the Netherlands, Belgium and all other areas west of the Rhine.
 
If Austria had been allowed to keep Belgium, they would have had a good start for taking further territories in the west of Germany.
It was not a case of Austria not being allowed to keep Belgium. Austria didn't want belgium anymore.
 

Redbeard

Banned
An interesting PoD to lessen Prussian influence in 19th century could be the Battle of Hanau in late October 1813.

Here a combined Austro-Bavarian army of 50.000 men tried to block the retreat of what they thought was only stragglers of the French army defeated at Leipzig some weeks before.

Instead they met Napoleon himself ahead of the Imperial Guard who pushed aside the allied army and got home to France although taking heavy casualties.

With better intelligence the Austro-Bavarian army would have been able to take up a position more suitable for fighting Napoleon himself and as Napoleon in the OTL battle made a personal recon at the very frontline there is a god chance/risk of Napoleon falling.

If Napoleon is just delayed there is a good chance of the allied main army catching up, but anyway it will the be Habsburgs and their new (Catholic) allies from Bavaria that can claim the honour of being "the ones who got Napoleon".

That will have tremendous importance in the coming decades in Germany when the "German soul" is developing.
 
Queen Louise of Prussia really disliked Napoleon. Her influence was important for the Prussian declaration of war in 1806. Remove her and differently balanced court politics might avoid the Fourth Coalition War. No humiliating defeat for Prussia's army; no loss of half the territory.
Instead, Prussia gobbles up Hanover as gift from Napoleon, and when Austria fights and loses against France in c.1809, Prussia gets Austrian West and Old Galicia. Who knows, apparently Napoleon even offered the title of "Emperor of North Germany" to Friedrich Wilhelm.

Basically, Prussia is now a Saxony on steroids, with a untested and unreformed army and lots of enmity among other powers, diplomatically wholly dependent on Napoleons goodwill. When (not if) he goes down, so do they. Perhaps Russia's influence will keep a rump Prussia alive as its vassal.
But they will probably lose/never gain the potential industries of the Ruhr in the West and Upper Silesia in the East.
Prussia proper, Pomerania and Brandenburg will make them utterly dominated by the archconservative, anti-urban agrarian Junkers. No influience by those upstart bourgeois capitalists!
 
I've always been a fan of a strong Bavaria filling some of the void. But it'd take some maneuvering to keep Austria from taking Prussia's place.
 
I read Kissinger's book on the Congress of Vienna (I don't have it anymore as it fell apart) and I recall the agreements reached in 1814 were in some areas significantly different from those reached in 1815 after The Hundred Days. I just forget how?! Was Prussian Saxony an 1815 gain?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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